are vertical front points worth it

This is my first season of ice climbing so I have been using my mountaineering crampons that have horizontal front points. I noticed that on steeper, less featured climbs my calves get really pumped because the secondary points on my crampons are set really far back and i have to drop my heals really low to engage them. Would it be worth it to get a pair of crampons that are better suited for steep ice or should I just thug it out with my current setup.

Absolutely - vertical front points are the tool for the job anytime WI2 or higher

I think most ice climbers, me included, would say that mountaineering crampons will suffice for your first day or two of ice climbing - they're good enough to give you a taste of the sport and decide whether you like it enough to pursue it further.  After that, you'll benefit greatly from technical water ice crampons.

Absolutely. Then move onto monopoint crampons. 

Ry C wrote:

Absolutely. Then move onto monopoint crampons. 

Or, just go straight to monos.  I kind of wish I'd done that.

/thread

I agree. Going straight to mono encourages good precision and helps penetration. 

In the meantime, is there any adjustment available to get the secondary points more exposed. Depending on the model and binding style this might be possible. But not necessarily the answer if you then find your unadjustable front points too far forward.

The pumped calves likely has nothing to do with the crampons. It's a normal condition for those who are not in excellent ice climbing condition. As a weekend warrior my calves are still getting pumped and I run blade runners and have a block in my bedroom for calf raises. 

Steve Barby wrote:

I agree. Going straight to mono encourages good precision and helps penetration. 

In the meantime, is there any adjustment available to get the secondary points more exposed. Depending on the model and binding style this might be possible. But not necessarily the answer if you then find your unadjustable front points too far forward.

this is exactly the problem i was running into. I can adjust my toe bail back to expose the secondaries but it makes my front points so long that I they would be hard to get into the ice. 

dylan smothermon wrote:

this is exactly the problem i was running into. I can adjust my toe bail back to expose the secondaries but it makes my front points so long that I they would be hard to get into the ice. 

So after you set the toe bail back, set your FPs to their shorter position. Of course you can't do this with the original Darts/Dartwins or any horizontal FP crampons. But it IS the way to get your secondaries out there.

Gunkiemike wrote:

So after you set the toe bail back, set your FPs to their shorter position. Of course you can't do this with the original Darts/Dartwins or any horizontal FP crampons. But it IS the way to get your secondaries out there.

i have blue ice harfang alpines so the front points are fixed in one position

regardless of what crampon you are using calf pump is 95% a fitness issue.  My calves were absolutely screaming the first  3 or 4 times I got out this season. they are fine now. combination of climbing and calf raises.  have not changed anything in my set up..  

dylan smothermon wrote:

i have blue ice harfang alpines so the front points are fixed in one position

If you do change to vertical points, whether mono or not, do check they have the ability to change the point length. 

I have Grivel g14s and petzl darts (the new type). The petzl ones are so much more adjustable, point length and bail position, independent of set-up. G14s are ok, but point length is fixed depending on mono or dual configuration.

take TAKE wrote:

/thread

Guys

take TAKE wrote:

Guys

Good to know that you are incharge of calling it for everyone else.

dylan smothermon wrote:

This is my first season of ice climbing so I have been using my mountaineering crampons that have horizontal front points. I noticed that on steeper, less featured climbs my calves get really pumped because the secondary points on my crampons are set really far back and i have to drop my heals really low to engage them. Would it be worth it to get a pair of crampons that are better suited for steep ice or should I just thug it out with my current setup.

So I went out yesterday for my very first time ice climbing and asked a similar question to my guide, about my mountaineering crampons. His concern immediately went to the secondary points. He said he would need to look at my crampons to determine if the secondary point were set at a suitable position to provide the stability. He said that he used to do most of his guided climbing with BD Sabertooth crampons.

FWIW I couldn’t really tell the difference on the pitches I did with my CAMP Ascent crampons vs the loaner BD Cyborgs.   

If you are new to ice climbing sabertooths will climb much better than you do. I recently did about a half dozen seasons on duals. The last few years were Cassin alpinist pros. Lead big grade 5 every season. Switched to blade runner monos in the middle of last season. They are great but no real difference in security or performance. My foot popped off soloing a grade 4 pillar yesterday..  it's just crampons.. stingers. Alpinist pros, sabertooths, blade runners, cyborgs they are all really good crampons.