Silent Partner Resurrection

I have been wanting a silent partner for a long time. I have got my hands on a used, opened one, with one spring lost (still very expensive). The centrifugal clutch is actually a very interesting system for stopping the rotation of the drum. I am an engineer so I find that kind of stuff fascinating.

I have been researching the costs to have one made. It is very expensive due to the solid works modeling, cnc programming, creating press guides to bend the housing consistently, cost of materials, testing and testing equipment... The only way to make it affordable is by spreading the cost of all this out by making several devices at the same time.

To produce these for anyone else there would be additional costs to incorporate, insurance, independent testing by an accredited lab to both EN 15151-1 and UIAA 129 standards (in Europe)...

There would have to be a decent amount of interest to justify all that. So I have set up a survey to gauge that interest. Based on the prices the used silent partner's are going for here and on ebay there could possibly be that much interest. Based on the low volume that rock exotica said they sold previously the minimum these could be produced for is $750 USD.

Let me know what you think.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/WCYRLPF

There have been rumblings that they might make another run of SP's.....However, this little guy may make the SP design obsolete.

I replied I like my current solo system. The silent partner is huge and heavy and sucks for rappelling and is not really an adequate TRS device. I think it's perfect for certain objectives (like soloing a wall) but I think the applications where it excels are niche. 

Why use a SP when more versatile, smaller lighter rigs with far more functionality are cheaper and have higher performance? 

All this being said, most rope soloists certainly pine for one, and I think you may find enough who would want to pay $750 to make this a realistic possibility. I appear to be in a small subset of rope soloists who look at the used silent partner market with confusion. 

Good luck with your project. There's no denying that at what the SP is good at it's best in class. I wish you success. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

I replied I like my current solo system. The silent partner is huge and heavy and sucks for rappelling and is not really an adequate TRS device. I think it's perfect for certain objectives (like soloing a wall) but I think the applications where it excels are niche. 

Why use a SP when more versatile, smaller lighter rigs with far more functionality are cheaper and have higher performance? 

All this being said, most rope soloists certainly pine for one, and I think you may find enough who would want to pay $750 to make this a realistic possibility. I appear to be in a small subset of rope soloists who look at the used silent partner market with confusion. 

Good luck with your project. There's no denying that at what the SP is good at it's best in class. I wish you success. 

I second a lot of this. And I've owned a SP for 18 years (one of the last production runs). SP's are fantastic in that they solved the inverted fall problem, which is still a ***huge*** inconvenience with any other system. But it's hard to justify laying down a grand for a used SP that you don't know the history of.

If there were to be a new production run, I think that changes the equation, and it becomes worth it for a lot of people.

Owning a SP though, I'm not even tempted to switch to a new system. I got very lucky in that I started climbing when both new Ushba Basics and Silent Partners were available to be had. They still are the gold standard when it comes to TRS and LRS, but with so many other nearly-equivalent options available, I don't think they're worth the gold they command.  

The inverted fall thing is the huge draw for the SP.

If you could incorporate a mechanism to do that to almost any other LRS device it would probably be more useful.

As mentioned, you can lead with the SP, but taking, lowering, rapping all are not really ideal. Its huge and heavy. Other devices can pretty much do it all acceptably well, except inverted falls. You can do backup knots, but that is not really ideal. Some people have done clever things with secondary devices which may work.

Mr Rogers wrote:

There have been rumblings that they might make another run of SP's.....However, this little guy may make the SP design obsolete.

This is the latest I have heard. Doesn't sound very likely that they are going to do another run.

www.climbing.com/news/rock-exotica-silent-partner-sells-for-1400-on-ebay/

The Sulu Go looks interesting, doesn't seem to mention lead rope solo. "Versatile Climbing Techniques: Suitable for Lead Rope climbing, Top Rope, Top Rope Solo" from their website.

Not being able to Lead Rope Solo is a significant disadvantage as most climbs outdoors are not accessible from the top.

Jim Gregson wrote:

This is the latest I have heard. Doesn't sound very likely that they are going to do another run.

www.climbing.com/news/rock-exotica-silent-partner-sells-for-1400-on-ebay/

The Sulu Go looks interesting, doesn't seem to mention lead rope solo. "Versatile Climbing Techniques: Suitable for Lead Rope climbing, Top Rope, Top Rope Solo" from their website.

No being able to Lead Rope Solo is a significant disadvantage as most climbs outdoors are not accessible from the top.

They initially advertised the prototype for LRS, but presumably their lawyer told them not to. I don’t think anybody is going to do more than wink and nod when it comes to LRS devices.

They have said in a comment to me that they think it's suitable for LRS but they can't recommend it and it can't be listed as such due to the lack of certification for it at this time. 

Jim Gregson wrote:

This is the latest I have heard. Doesn't sound very likely that they are going to do another run.

www.climbing.com/news/rock-exotica-silent-partner-sells-for-1400-on-ebay/

The Sulu Go looks interesting, doesn't seem to mention lead rope solo. "Versatile Climbing Techniques: Suitable for Lead Rope climbing, Top Rope, Top Rope Solo" from their website.

No being able to Lead Rope Solo is a significant disadvantage as most climbs outdoors are not accessible from the top.

They literally have videos of it being used for LRS on their website. 

They refer to LRS as just Rope Solo. Watch the videos on their website, it's with one of the prototype devices.

Eli W wrote:

They initially advertised the prototype for LRS, but presumably their lawyer told them not to. I don’t think anybody is going to do more than wink and nod when it comes to LRS devices.

It looks like a cam type device still, even though they say it isn't, it still uses the same principal of a force in a certain direction causing a pinch on the rope to stop it. It appears that the device needs to be pulled up (the v shape apart) to cause the breaking. And requires to be oriented in a certain direction (smiley face on the red part near the carabiner, see video) . So upside down would still not work like the grigri.

https://youtu.be/jEwci6v0F_A?si=wQmizT-OKgaIw4AZ

Personally, if they are not confident enough to say it is for lead rope solo then its not for me. My life is definitely worth more than a thousand dollars. 

Jim Gregson wrote:

It looks like a cam type device still, even though they say it isn't, it still uses the same principal of a force in a certain direction causing a pinch on the rope to stop it. It appears that the device needs to be pulled up (the v shape apart) to cause the breaking. And requires to be oriented in a certain direction (smiley face on the red part near the carabiner, see video) . So upside down would still not work like the grigri.

https://youtu.be/jEwci6v0F_A?si=wQmizT-OKgaIw4AZ

Personally, if they are not confident enough to say it is for lead rope solo then its not for me. My life is definitely worth more than a thousand dollars. 

So you only use the Silent Partner, Soloist, and El Mudo for LRS? That leaves out most of the best devices. At least El mudo is pretty decent. 

Pure conjecture, vacuous and wrong. 

Jim Gregson wrote:

It looks like a cam type device still, even though they say it isn't,

Do you know what a cam is? 

 it still uses the same principal of a force in a certain direction causing a pinch on the rope to stop it.

Riiight

 It appears that the device needs to be pulled up (the v shape apart) to cause the breaking.

Just because it locks when pulled in that direction doesn't mean that's what caused the locking.

 And requires to be oriented in a certain direction (smiley face on the red part near the carabiner, see video) . So upside down would still not work like the grigri.

How do you know it wouldn't work upside down? upside down or not it could catch a fall just fine, it could just be a matter of ergonomics.

Personally, if they are not confident enough to say it is for lead rope solo then its not for me. My life is definitely worth more than a thousand dollars. 

No one in their right mind would ever recommend a device for rope soloing anymore, there once was a time where there were probably less than 100 people in the world who rope solo'd they were operating near the cutting edge of the sport and were doing crazy shit with it, this is no longer the case. Every trad dad and his mom are rope soloing these days. 

It also comes down to certification, there isn't a single device on this planet that is certified for LRS, AC climbing is based in Europe, where you cant just say "you can use it for LRS but do so at your own risk if it fails not my problem".

Jim Gregson wrote:

It looks like a cam type device still, even though they say it isn't, it still uses the same principal of a force in a certain direction causing a pinch on the rope to stop it. It appears that the device needs to be pulled up (the v shape apart) to cause the breaking. 

Seb beat me to it....but here is some basics around what a cam is.
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/17GMr6VfPY90SWo7ZXlmrW84lmArEA0AeCZbxTL03SoA/mobilebasic

And requires to be oriented in a certain direction (smiley face on the red part near the carabiner, see video) . So upside down would still not work like the grigri.

https://youtu.be/jEwci6v0F_A?si=wQmizT-OKgaIw4AZ

It's so you load the rope in correctly so the device functions as intended....

Personally, if they are not confident enough to say it is for lead rope solo then its not for me. My life is definitely worth more than a thousand dollars. 

The SP is not certified for anything. Its device designed for LRS, but sure as heck has no cert from any sort of governing body.
Not a single LRS device has an applicable LRS certification to even apply....they're all part of the same group of misfits.

that guy named seb wrote:

Pure conjecture, vacuous and wrong. 

Do you know what a cam is? 

Riiight

Just because it locks when pulled in that direction doesn't mean that's what caused the locking.

How do you know it wouldn't work upside down? upside down or not it could catch a fall just fine, it could just be a matter of ergonomics.

No one in their right mind would ever recommend a device for rope soloing anymore, there once was a time where there were probably less than 100 people in the world who rope solo'd they were operating near the cutting edge of the sport and were doing crazy shit with it, this is no longer the case. Every trad dad and his mom are rope soloing these days. 

It also comes down to certification, there isn't a single device on this planet that is certified for LRS, AC climbing is based in Europe, where you cant just say "you can use it for LRS but do so at your own risk if it fails not my problem".

cam (noun) · cams (plural noun)

1. a projection on a rotating part in machinery, designed to make sliding contact with another part while rotating and impart reciprocal or variable motion to it.
   Watch these videos...

   https://youtu.be/Yw22N0G8FsI?si=DaqW8XD_j2yW50o2

2. https://youtube.com/shorts/Z4xpLWSFnBM?si=a9zU4o3F2oQsmpvc

3. Look at the first patent on their page called our story...

   https://alternativecurrent.it/en/story/
   
   

   It shows a simplistic version of the mechanism

4. There is a big difference between a cam-ing type device and a centrifugal type device. A cam type will not work inverted.

5. Rock Exotica said they sold about 100 per year back when they were producing them, niche, yes, but not that extreme. 

6. I agree with certification sort of. There is no specific test type for testing a lead rope solo device. The closest is Type 8 in EN 15151-1 and in the UIAA 129. Which is a combination of locking assisted breaking device and repelling device. You can look at the test in the UIAA standards here for free...

7. https://www.theuiaa.org/safety/safety-standards/

8. If this goes ahead, it would be tested with that standard (Type 8). 8 kN with the stopper plate, 2 kN without and the dynamic test. I would also personally do a separate dynamic test with the silent partner at the weighted end of the test apparatus. Part of getting the test done and certified with the UIAA includes a membership to UIAA as a safety label holder with the following benefits;
   Benefits for manufacturers of climbing equipment...
   
   Confirmation that your equipment is tested to the most stringent and respected international standards.

9. Usage of the UIAA Safety Label trademark on certified products
   Opportunity to join the UIAA Safety Commission annual plenary meetings where Standards are created and updated.
   Belong to working groups and have access to all data information of the UIAA’s network of experts.
   Network with climbing and mountaineering manufacturers and experts from around the world to build the future of equipment safety.
   
   

10.  I hope that I could get another category created and certified test made specifically for that (just moving the location of the device in the dynamic test).

I apologize if I'm diverting further from the OP's topic, but... I have a SP but want to convert to GriGri+ for the reasons Ricky mentioned. I've spent the better part of the last two weeks trying to research what to use for a backup device (knots seem too time-consuming) and have read many posts here in MP without any luck finding anyone's setup...and would love to know what you guys use. My primary goal is easy/moderate trad multi-pitch with lead rope in a backpack (because of low-angle chickenheads). I saw the post (videos) by Mr. Rogers on the USHBA (unavailable?), and have seen other mentions about fall arrest devices (e.g. Petzl ASAP) but those are not rated for skinny dynamic (maybe they do the job?). Best option I've seen so far is a second ABD (Revo, Neox, etc.) Thanks in advance!

Jim Gregson wrote: noun

cam (noun) · cams (plural noun)

1. a projection on a rotating part in machinery, designed to make sliding contact with another part while rotating and impart reciprocal or variable motion to it.
   Watch these videos...

   https://youtu.be/Yw22N0G8FsI?si=DaqW8XD_j2yW50o2

2. https://youtube.com/shorts/Z4xpLWSFnBM?si=a9zU4o3F2oQsmpvc

3. Look at the first patent on their page called our story...

   https://alternativecurrent.it/en/story/

My brother.
They make a camming unit called the angel AC, which is not the same as what we are talking about, the Sulu go, which is not a cam. Thats what "their story" is showing. **the various patents around caming devices**
Edit to be clear. The first patent shown is I believe is a Ray Jardine one, whose straight arms take the path of a logarithmic spiral. If it were 1 arm it would just make a circle.
Someone smarter than me can blow my understanding out of the water...

_________________

now, Scott.
they still sell them sometimes. But to be clear the USHBA that catches in both directions is only the hand ascendecr version. Ural-Alp

Scott Melcer wrote:

I apologize if I'm diverting further from the OP's topic, but... I have a SP but want to convert to GriGri+ for the reasons Ricky mentioned. I've spent the better part of the last two weeks trying to research what to use for a backup device (knots seem too time-consuming) and have read many posts here in MP without any luck finding anyone's setup...and would love to know what you guys use. My primary goal is easy/moderate trad multi-pitch with lead rope in a backpack (because of low-angle chickenheads). I saw the post (videos) by Mr. Rogers on the USHBA (unavailable?), and have seen other mentions about fall arrest devices (e.g. Petzl ASAP) but those are not rated for skinny dynamic (maybe they do the job?). Best option I've seen so far is a second ABD (Revo, Neox, etc.) Thanks in advance!

new thread created to answer your question.

Jim Gregson wrote: noun

cam (noun) · cams (plural noun)

1. a projection on a rotating part in machinery, designed to make sliding contact with another part while rotating and impart reciprocal or variable motion to it.
   Watch these videos...

   https://youtu.be/Yw22N0G8FsI?si=DaqW8XD_j2yW50o2

2. https://youtube.com/shorts/Z4xpLWSFnBM?si=a9zU4o3F2oQsmpvc

3. Look at the first patent on their page called our story...

   https://alternativecurrent.it/en/story/
   
   

   It shows a simplistic version of the mechanism

4. There is a big difference between a cam-ing type device and a centrifugal type device. A cam type will not work inverted.

5. Rock Exotica said they sold about 100 per year back when they were producing them, niche, yes, but not that extreme. 

6. I agree with certification sort of. There is no specific test type for testing a lead rope solo device. The closest is Type 8 in EN 15151-1 and in the UIAA 129. Which is a combination of locking assisted breaking device and repelling device. You can look at the test in the UIAA standards here for free...

7. https://www.theuiaa.org/safety/safety-standards/

8. If this goes ahead, it would be tested with that standard (Type 8). 8 kN with the stopper plate, 2 kN without and the dynamic test. I would also personally do a separate dynamic test with the silent partner at the weighted end of the test apparatus. Part of getting the test done and certified with the UIAA includes a membership to UIAA as a safety label holder with the following benefits;
   Benefits for manufacturers of climbing equipment...
   
   Confirmation that your equipment is tested to the most stringent and respected international standards.

9. Usage of the UIAA Safety Label trademark on certified products
   Opportunity to join the UIAA Safety Commission annual plenary meetings where Standards are created and updated.
   Belong to working groups and have access to all data information of the UIAA’s network of experts.
   Network with climbing and mountaineering manufacturers and experts from around the world to build the future of equipment safety.
   
   

10.  I hope that I could get another category created and certified test made specifically for that (just moving the location of the device in the dynamic test).

I'm a UIAA member and safety-label holder, and can say that I wish there was a UIAA branch office in the USA.  Between the time gap and language barrier (yes, they all speak perfect English, but still--maybe it's a cultural barrier: I don't know, but communication with them isn't always easy), the thought of cooking up a new standard category is daunting.  I have products I'd like to have certified and safety-labeled that don't fit into any existing testing rubric, and having a local chapter to communicate with and set up testing standards for new kinds of gear would be nice.  It would also be great to have a UIAA-approved testing lab in the US, so I didn't have to ship samples overseas for testing.

Any other manufacturers wish the same thing?  Maybe we could join up in appealing to them to set up an American branch.

As for the specific topic of the OP: I think such a product would be great, especially if it could be made smaller and lighter.  The old ones are kind of big battleaxes.

There are several design factors that nearly require the SP to be the size it is.  I don’t think scaling down the design would work.  

You asked for help understanding why people have concerns over devices with a known failure mode. It seems self-evident that given a choice between a device with one failure mode and a device with zero, one of them is more concerning than the other. It was kind of a strange question as the answer seems self evident.

The more you trust your systems the more you can focus on the climb.

No disrespect intended but I don’t know what you expected with that question. 

Years of pontificating on mountain project and underwhelming real life performance will wear a fragile ego down