Portaledge Discussion: Delta 2p vs Full Double D4

Imagine the redundancy as you lead/haul every 1/8th pitch of your easiest project

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

May your dreams turn to ash in your mouth

We will see who has the last laugh once me and the homies have occupied the Stovelegs in the OCTODOME (tm).

The NIAD'ers shrieks of horror will turn to songs of adoration once we offer tea and crumpets and a nice reprieve in the OCTODOME's sun room and backgammon parlor.

jt newgardwrote:

We will see who has the last laugh once me and the homies have occupied the Stovelegs in the OCTODOME (tm).

The NIAD'ers shrieks of horror will turn to songs of adoration once we offer tea and crumpets and a nice reprieve in the OCTODOME's sun room and backgammon parlor.

Iv dream of a niad aid station. Count me in to realize your dream of the Octodome

Jabroni McChuffersonwrote:

Iv dream of a niad aid station. Count me in to realize your dream of the Octodome

Perhaps there should be three or four of them on each of the classic routes?

Like a ski hut. 1st come 1st serve. looks cozy. like dinner ledge a day or two before anticipated inclement weather. 

Just gotta say, I really like where this is going (and also hope the OP got their ledge questions answered prior to thread drift).

Expect the IPO just in time for the spring thaw NIAD rush, barring any major R&D setbacks arising from quantum entanglements, bendy bars, or sewing booboos. OCTODOME, Inc. takes no responsibility for NIADs turning into month-long NIAPs once everyone realizes how cozy it is inside the OCTODOME.

I am a Delta 2p owner, it has been my first and only portaledge so far. I am pretty tall at 6'1" and have shared it with another climber on 7 nights. From my experience, it is pretty terrible to share, expect to snuggle, but maybe for smaller folks it is okay. I love the ledge, but felt a bit lied to with it advertised as a "2 person" ledge. I plan to get a second ledge for sharing at some point in the future.

What's the width of the 2p? I looked at Durango's website and they list the 2p at 52" wide and the D4 at 47" wide? That doesn't seem right if the D4 is bigger. What gives?

Ricky Harlinewrote:

What's the width of the 2p? I looked at Durango's website and they list the 2p at 52" wide and the D4 at 47" wide? That doesn't seem right if the D4 is bigger. What gives?

From John’s website dims of the delta2P. While technically the width is probably around 52, it’s only for a short time whereas I imaging the D4s is consistent throughout.

Cameron Jwrote:

http://bigwalls.net/d4-delta-design-notebook-pages.html

From John’s website dims of the delta2P. While technically the width is probably around 52, it’s only for a short time whereas I imaging the D4s is consistent throughout.

Ahhh I see. Thanks, Cameron

PSA to the OP: This D4 is likely still available. No affiliation with the seller. This is not the D4 scam that people have discussed around here, though of course you should do your own due diligence.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/200259878/fs-d4-double-portaledge#ForumMessage-200342998 

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

Were you utilizing a sling to the clip in point in the middle of the bed to raise up the bed? Having shared my Delta2p with a 6'+ partner for 11 nights, I'm confused by your "except to snuggle" as we were as seperate as you'll  be on a reg rectangular double ledge every night due to the raised clip in point creating effectively two seperate buckets, one for each climber to slide into ane away from their partner 

Never tried that... cant believe i didnt put that together. Still seems really small, but will test with my 6'4" friend as soon as I get the chance.

Thanks for the pointer!

For anyone curious I ended up getting the full Double D4 mainly because I was able to buy it used. 

Ben Hostewrote:

Making a ledge is 5% making the frame and 95% sewing. Even more so if you also make a fly. Think it all out carefully to save yourself hours and hours of frustration. Have fun! 

Hot tip of the day: buy cheap fabric and make at least one practice bed/fly. Don’t sweat it, you learn the mistakes and order of ops real quick. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

Lmao never stop being awful to each other you two, it's very funny. 

What happened to that guy?  I heard he had a serious incident at the toupée salon?

Remember:  Sy Sperling was not only the president of Hair Club for Men, he was also a client! 

Bailey Moorewrote:

Never tried that... cant believe i didnt put that together. Still seems really small, but will test with my 6'4" friend as soon as I get the chance.

Thanks for the pointer!

It also depends on who made it, as I think some makers of the Delta 2P have different dimensions.

Another note, I would be cautious about this central connection as its sewn in a way that should be fine, but if you had it tensioned and “gave it what for” it might rip out. As I read his notes it appeared he was in between a fin and that tab, and it does make more sense with the tab but its not nearly as durable as a fin. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

What's the width of the 2p? I looked at Durango's website and they list the 2p at 52" wide and the D4 at 47" wide? That doesn't seem right if the D4 is bigger. What gives?

Buckle in.

The dims on bigwalls.net are centerline of tube, the stated dims for a finished ledge is the outer diameter. So you are losing a bit over an inch in width and 1.5” in length. The D2P is essentially an alpine double split down the diagonal and set shoulder to shoulder. 

D2P is more like the alpine double for two people side by side. The Full size D4 is different from the A5 Cliff Cabana in that the A5 had a straight line down the center, but the D4 has tapered head/foot arrangement. I don’t think this had ever changed for A5 cliff cabanas, which is odd. This means the D4 full size has ~25-27” of shoulder space vs the alpine double/d2P at around 22-23” inside the tubes. 

The end width of the D2P and the outer edge with of the D4 Full Size is sort of irrelevant since the constraint is where each person’s shoulders are.

I’ll have to check but I think DSS D2P might be different dims than Bigwalls.net dims. There’s at least 4 different D2P drawings on there, and its pretty easy for a ledge maker to measure it one way and come up with a ledge 1-2” shorter/longer in all directions. 

Pardon the thread drift... I'm looking at building a D4 and am somewhat confused at Johns notes. Particularly, at the moment at least, how the frame pieces fit together. 

The diameters of the tubing relative to the "bullet" dimensions dont match - I'm taking measurements of the bullet from the step file on the website. Am I correct in that the orange sleeve goes over the male end of the bullet, and the pink tube goes into the female end?

If someone has one of these things kicking around and doesn't mind taking some measurements or pictures (OD of tubes, OD of bullet, length of bullet )I'd be forever grateful. Thx

I’ve got bullet joiners.  

Erik Jwrote:

Pardon the thread drift... I'm looking at building a D4 and am somewhat confused at Johns notes. Particularly, at the moment at least, how the frame pieces fit together. 

The diameters of the tubing relative to the "bullet" dimensions dont match - I'm taking measurements of the bullet from the step file on the website. Am I correct in that the orange sleeve goes over the male end of the bullet, and the pink tube goes into the female end?

If someone has one of these things kicking around and doesn't mind taking some measurements or pictures (OD of tubes, OD of bullet, length of bullet )I'd be forever grateful. Thx

Erik, I’m not sure what measurements you’re confused by. If you do the math, 1.125OD is a little smaller than the ID of 1.250ODx0.058 tubing, but 0.058 thickness is used because you need a little bit of tolerance for the tubes to fit in one another. The bullet joiners are essentially just a fancy shaped piece of 1.25ODx0.058 tube. 1.125od fits into the 1.25od connector, which fits into 1.375od tube. The green 1” tube is placed inside the 1.125” tube, and is solely used for reinforcement - might not be necessary but can’t hurt and I assume John tested and found it necessary. And fyi wicks aircraft was the best choice (price and shipping price) for ordering such tubing in the US when I was building a frame.

For the rectangular shaped double, exact dimensions of each side aren’t that important as long as the parallel sides end up the same length. If you’re bending tube it’s probably easier to not try to get the dimensions exact actually, since bending doesn’t preserve the length of tube. For the trapezoid shaped ledges, you want to get lengths correct or it won’t fit together properly - I do have a fusion360 file I made that lets you input numbers of everything and figure out lengths/angles bends if anyone wants it.

Lmk if you have any more questions or need to figure out a way to bend tubes, happy to help others building these things.

Joe Petroskewrote:

Erik, I’m not sure what measurements you’re confused by. If you do the math, 1.125OD is a little smaller than the ID of 1.250ODx0.058 tubing, but 0.058 thickness is used because you need a little bit of tolerance for the tubes to fit in one another. The bullet joiners are essentially just a fancy shaped piece of 1.25ODx0.058 tube. 1.125od fits into the 1.25od connector, which fits into 1.375od tube. The green 1” tube is placed inside the 1.125” tube, and is solely used for reinforcement - might not be necessary but can’t hurt and I assume John tested and found it necessary. And fyi wicks aircraft was the best choice (price and shipping price) for ordering such tubing in the US when I was building a frame.

For the rectangular shaped double, exact dimensions of each side aren’t that important as long as the parallel sides end up the same length. If you’re bending tube it’s probably easier to not try to get the dimensions exact actually, since bending doesn’t preserve the length of tube. For the trapezoid shaped ledges, you want to get lengths correct or it won’t fit together properly - I do have a fusion360 file I made that lets you input numbers of everything and figure out lengths/angles bends if anyone wants it.

Lmk if you have any more questions or need to figure out a way to bend tubes, happy to help others building these things.

Thanks Joe! I think I was confused as the bullet connector step file on the website was not the right dimensions.