The carabiner needs a design paradigm shift.

The carabiner needs a design paradigm shift.  This need is primarily for the rope solo community, but could apply elsewhere also.  No existing anti-crossloading carabiner or addon device is satisfactory for all of the following needs:

1. The carabiner, by itself, prevents crossloading of the device.
2. The carabiner does not require complete system disassembly or removal from the harness to detach the device*  from the carabiner .
3. Disengagement of the carabiner from the device* should be a simple one step action - or, at most, a twistlock.
4. The carabiner needs to provide a compact connection between the device* and harness to limit the range of motion.

The existing anti-crossloading carabiners

• Require a multistep, fiddly, attach/detach process.
• Require detachment from the harness to attach/detach the device.
• Allow too much range of motion.

I have tried several of the rubber or plastic and-on things that have demonstrated the following flaws

1. Break, tear, or get stretched out - and typically at a bad time.
2. Become litter at the bottom of the route.

“Device could be something such as an ascender, belay device, or fall-arrest device.  For example a Petzl Microtraxion, Petzl grigri, or Kong Goblin.

Mike Gibson wrote:

The carabiner needs a design paradigm shift.  This need is primarily for the rope solo community, but could apply elsewhere also.  No existing anti-crossloading carabiner or addon device is satisfactory for all of the following needs:

1. The carabiner, by itself, prevents crossloading of the device.

2. The carabiner does not require complete system disassembly or removal from the harness to detach the device*  from the carabiner .

3. Disengagement of the carabiner from the device* should be a simple one step action - or, at most, a twistlock.

4. The carabiner needs to provide a compact connection between the device* and harness to limit the range of motion.

The existing anti-crossloading carabiners

• Require a multistep, fiddly, attach/detach process.

• Require detachment from the harness to attach/detach the device.

• Allow too much range of motion.

I have tried several of the rubber or plastic and-on things that have demonstrated the following flaws

1. Break, tear, or get stretched out - and typically at a bad time.

2. Become litter at the bottom of the route.

   “Device could be something such as an ascender, belay device, or fall-arrest device.  For example a Petzl Microtraxion, Petzl grigri, or Kong Goblin.

Funny way of saying CLEPSYDRA S K10GS

Climbing Weasel wrote:

Funny way of saying CLEPSYDRA S K10GS

Close, except for item 4.  I don't want the device to have the ability to flop around so much.  For soloing this requires a shoulder harness or putting a noose around your neck to restrain motion - both of which suck.

Mike Gibson wrote:

Close, except for item 4.  I don't want the device to have the ability to flop around so much.  For soloing this requires a shoulder harness or putting a noose around your neck to restrain motion - both of which suck.

Ok that's a fair point. Otherwise though, the small grivel is pretty good, yes?

I've invented just the thing actually. Introducing, the LINK

Adam bloc wrote:

I've invented just the thing actually. Introducing, the LINK

Grounbreaking! This looks like it would be able to be speedily applied- might I suggest the moniker of a "quick link?"

Mike Gibson wrote:

The carabiner needs a design paradigm shift.  

Did you see design for Edelrid Pinch? - they shifted the paradigm by incorporating all your desired carabiner ideas into the belay device

Pinch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXeO-i2qQMQ 

If only someone could design a knotless carabiner… wait

anyway, your time would probably be better spent getting a normal anti crossload and using a device with a swivel cheek such as Taz Lov3, AC Sulu, etc. because no one is about to shake up the carabiner landscape

I use Ovalock from Austrialpin for rope solos, the best I've found so far. The fat ANSI style gate is close to being perfect. 

https://www.austrialpin.at/en/products/carabiners/detail/ka65b-n-ovalo-ovalock/

I like the Metolius Gatekeeper. I also like quick links. 

Climbing Weasel wrote:

Ok that's a fair point. Otherwise though, the small grivel is pretty good, yes?

I have to admit that I had not noticed that one before, and I may have to get one for regular belaying, but not for soloing.  

amarius wrote:

Did you see design for Edelrid Pinch? - they shifted the paradigm by incorporating all your desired carabiner ideas into the belay device

Pinch on YouTube - youtube.com/watch?v=xXeO-i2…;

The pinch is actually what got me thinking about this.

This isn't perfect but its close:

https://hownot2.com/products/delta-quick-link

Petzl Omni. Fulfills all requirements. Including #4 when used as a belay loop alternative (its original intended use).

Mike Larson wrote:

Petzl Omni. Fulfills all requirements. Including #4 when used as a belay loop alternative (its original intended use).

I got one for LRS and it likes to shift around into a cross loaded position a lot. It did not give me the warm fuzzies. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

I got one for LRS and it likes to shift around into a cross loaded position a lot. It did not give me the warm fuzzies. 

With a GG? Is it getting hung up on the gate? (I have the Triact twistlock and it's too thick for any device of mine to get hung up on it), 

The whole point of the Omni is that it is theoretically uncrossloadable, being equally strong in all directions at 15kn according to Petzl. I use mine with my SP for LRS and for my MT backup during TRS.  

Mike Larson wrote:

With a GG? Is it getting hung up on the gate? (I have the Triact twistlock and it's too thick for any device of mine to get hung up on it), 

The whole point of the Omni is that it is theoretically uncrossloadable, being equally strong in all directions at 15kn according to Petzl. I use mine with my SP for LRS and for my MT backup during TRS.  

With a Taz Lov. I would have the gate in a vertical position going through the two hard points and then it would inevitably rotate downwards so that in the case of a fall the device would be loading the round part of the gate while the carabiner itself would take the load on my hard points across the gate. 

It's probably fine, but I didn't like the idea of loading the gate like that, and it happened almost every time I used the thing. 

https://dmmwales.com/products/belay-master-2?srsltid=AfmBOoqx0t09gZDcN_CSVkdlRd2t1GU4T5dIyEOQDOXoQxfV5TFjrrEI 

+

TazLuv = warm n fuzzies. 

Mad rock gemini. 

Mike Gibson wrote:

The pinch is actually what got me thinking about this.

If it's for TRS then you don't need any carabiner with the new Petzl Mini Traxion. You could tie in with a suitable section of cord. No cross loading. No dropping the device. The side plate rotates opens independently from it's connector.

Mike Gibson wrote:

Close, except for item 4.  I don't want the device to have the ability to flop around so much.  For soloing this requires a shoulder harness or putting a noose around your neck to restrain motion - both of which suck.

Can you expand on this? The CLEPSYDRA S K10GS is 97mm long. Your bog standard Petzl Spirit is 95.2mm long. Are you looking for something shorter/smaller than the typical offset D carabiner? Or narrower than one? 

that guy named seb wrote:

Mad rock gemini. 

Anybody use this with a microtrax or spoc (specifically trs)? Might actually have a use for this stupid thing