Does being taller make climbing easier? Answering this question with data!

Nkane 1wrote:

Could we develop an ELO system for climbing?

I had to look that up. It seems too complicated for climbing, but I could be mistaken. Also, it is designed for two players in zero sum games.

A par system would simply measure the average of how many attempts it takes to succeed amongst top ranking climbers. But the current system won't change, at least for outdoor climbs. Competition climbing is another matter. Climbing is a sport that evolves with each generation. 

I wonder what "par" would be for Midnight Lightning?

Casey Fentonwrote:

you can argue about height making things harder all day long (obviously the jury is out here) but one thing that DOES suck for shorties is ground up granite slabs bolted by 6' dudes reaching high with the drill. nothing like standing at a great stance unable to reach a bolt that was obviously drilled (and then clipped) from where you are comfortably hanging out, and then having to do the crux moves, while clipping, with a decent fall below you

Now THAT we can all agree on. I'm very grateful not to have to deal with this lol.

Li Huwrote:

My point is that your arguments that being taller is an advantage is not necessarily true are validated by the simple fact that average male height ranges from 5’7” to 6’1 or so.

First off, I have never once said that lol all I’ve been pointing out is that your idea of what “average” is has been flawed and that more of the top climbers are above average height than people are leading on. For every elite climber below average height there is likely one above. My honest opinion is that someone who is 5’6” has just as likely as a chance of climbing 5.15 or V15 as someone 6’ due to numerous other factors that do not involve height (mobility, strength to weight ratio, ape index, injuries, accessibility to hard climbs, etc.). I’ve said multiple times that height is only a small part of making climber easier.

Secondly, your entire last post was about being too vague but you’re still fixated that the average height is 5’7” to 6’1” somehow. Not only do I not understand where these numbers came from (I’m assuming you are taking what you think is the shortest male height per country/ethnicity and the tallest, which would also be incorrect as the shortest male height is closer to 5’3”) but we also do not need a range for this scenario as they are already averaged, which covers a range. 

Thirdly, half of the top 10 most elite/accomplished boulderers (Ondra, Webb, Fultz, Graham, Cameron’s) are above average heigtht for their ethnicity with the other 4 being below average (Ruana, Nalle, Raboutou, Woods) and Bosi being on par. Almost like height doesn’t matter as much as other factors….

Being lighter with the same strength is a significant advantage. That’s pretty quantifiable.

Yes, however this has hardly been brought up during your quips back and forth with me. 

No.

Steve Williamswrote:

No.

Exactly, otherwise, everyone on this site would be over 6’5”.    

It might make certain moves on certain climbs easier.  Same goes for being short.  It all evens out in the end I think.  I only focus on what I can actually control: strength and weight.  

Li Huwrote:

Exactly, otherwise, everyone on this site would be over 6’5”.    

This isn’t accurate. Users on this site are varying ranges of climbers and therefore varying heights. 

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

This isn’t accurate.

???

Users on this site are varying ranges of climbers and therefore varying heights. 

Exactly what I had stated, since we’re not all 6’5” it must be that height doesn’t really matter in regards to climbing?

Li Huwrote:

???

Exactly what I had stated, since we’re not all 6’5” it must be that height doesn’t really matter in regards to climbing?

lolz

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

loz

You seem to have trouble reading charts?

So, I’ll zoom in a bit:

This is just below average height and not taller than average for the younger aged group as you’ve been arguing.

I think we agree that average height for males around the world is 5’7”, but bear in mind this includes 90+ year olds. We should only be interested in the same age demographic as the majority of climbers. I believe that around the world height is increasing especially in developing nations which are the vast majority of the people contributing to the average.

I’m just a contrarian, so, I’ll just keep arguing for the sake of it, but this seems to really matter to you.

Not sure why? Please explain to this “loser”.   

Holy smokes this is getting heated

Wax Mhitfordwrote:

Holy smokes this is getting heated

Just responding to the ad hominem remarks.  

Anyways, height clearly doesn’t matter the way some of us seem to think. There, another stab.   

Li Huwrote:

You seem to have trouble reading charts?

Quite the assumption, and quite inaccurate as I’ve been posting things in alignment with these graphs. Who’s ad hominem’ing now? 

So, I’ll zoom in a bit:

This is just below average height and not taller than average for the younger aged group as you’ve been arguing.

This isn’t accurate, according to your very own argument, as we’d need to look at each individual’s country/ethinic average height…. 

I think we agree that average height for males around the world is 5’7”, but bear in mind this includes 90+ year olds. We should only be interested in the same age demographic as the majority of climbers. I believe that around the world height is increasing especially in developing nations which are the vast majority of the people contributing to the average.

You’ve disagreed with this point repeatedly actually, trying to argue that the average height should range from 5’7” to 6’1”. Additionally you occasionally argue it should be higher due to the old farts shrinking. So no, not quite sure we do agree with this point, Li. 

I’m just a contrarian, so, I’ll just keep arguing for the sake of it, but this seems to really matter to you.

What if I told you, I too, am a contrarian and I couldn’t give a hoot about random people’s height(s)?

Not sure why? Please explain to this “loser”.   

Never called, or insinuated, you were a loser if that’s what you’re implying…

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

Quite the assumption, and quite inaccurate as I’ve been posting things in alignment with these graphs. Who’s ad hominem’ing now? 

This isn’t accurate, according to your very own argument, as we’d need to look at each individual’s country/ethinic average height…. 

You’ve disagreed with this point repeatedly actually, trying to argue that the average height should range from 5’7” to 6’1”. Additionally you occasionally argue it should be higher due to the old farts shrinking. So no, not quite sure we do agree with this point, Li. 

What if I told you, I too, am a contrarian and I couldn’t give a hoot about random people’s height(s)?

Never called, or insinuated, you were a loser if that’s what you’re implying…

Good, neither of us gives a crap about height with regard to climbing, we’re in full agreement. Done!

BTW, “loz” means loser. In case you didn’t actually know.   

Li Huwrote:

Good, neither of us gives a crap about height with regard to climbing, we’re in full agreement. Done!

BTW, “loz” means loser. In case you didn’t actually know.   

loz = lolz.....ask the youths, you loz

it's funny to me that in a sport that focuses on reach we, or most people, simply refuse to acknowledge that more reach helps   

Jason Lwrote:

it's funny to me that in a sport that focuses on reach we, or most people, simply refuse to acknowledge that more reach helps   

It might be noted that reach does not necessarily equate to height. I don’t think anyone is denying the advantages of a positive ape index. 

Go Back to Super Topowrote:

It might be noted that reach does not necessarily equate to height. I don’t think anyone is denying the advantages of a positive ape index. 

That’s true.

Being super light, strong fingers and I’ll add + ape index.

Tall? The data doesn’t support that. Of course, we can argue what is “tall”?    

Jason Lwrote:

it's funny to me that in a sport that focuses on reach we, or most people, simply refuse to acknowledge that more reach helps   

Sometimes your knees get in the way too. Why don't we acknowledge that?

Adam Rwrote:

Sometimes your knees get in the way too. Why don't we acknowledge that?

You sound too mobile for your own good