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Sheath Blown Through on West Face of Leaning Tower

Michael Vaill · · Yosemite · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 106

If I remember correctly, the failure mode leading to the Zion accident was not inherently caused by the strategy of jugging the loaded haul line, but by the pro-trax being improperly loaded and the rope coming out while the climber was jugging. I would have no problem jugging a line rigged to a PCD if the PCD had a biner holding the plates together (optional on the pro), and ideally a backup knot immediately behind it.

As far as this leaning tower incident, it's a great reminder to take care of the line especially when it's overhanging and the jugging is likely to be bouncy. I'm glad there were no consequences other than a damaged rope!

Peter Zabrok · · Hamilton, ON · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 645

Yes, jugged the weighted haul line.

Bloody hell. What are you thinking?! All that piggage plus you jugging and bouncing on a very tiny toothed cam rated to 5 kN? Have you seen the size of the pin holding that cam? It's as thin as a paper clip FFS. 

Yer gonna die!

N00bs - don't do this! Ever!  Jug the line before it's weighted! Convert your jugging system to a Frog, and you'll be up in only a few minutes. 

Sheesh. 

Fell Over · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2021 · Points: 0

Thanks for sharing.

I think the stuff comparing it to the Zion accident or worrying about jugging on a rope held at the top by a toothed cam is not very relevant.

This incident doesn't have anything to do with toothed cams, just the susceptibility of heavily weighted ropes to being cut.

Glowering · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 16

It’s jugging on a rope over an edge that’s the main issue. It’s a sawing action that can happen with body weight. Ask me how I know LOL. 

Kyle Pereira · · California · Joined May 2022 · Points: 65

Hey guys, so reading about this, and researching more about this accident: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/106280731/fatal-accident-in-zion-on-touchstone?page=2
I've heard that it can be common practice to have a partner get onto the pull side of a 1:1 haul with ascender to "counter weight" the haul, then jug back up.

I know that the line is not weighted at the bottom of that end, but it is still jugging on a toothed device. Is this only a concern with weighted "taut" lines because of the extra force generated?

Fell Over · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2021 · Points: 0

It's quite different.

Disclaimer: I would happily jug a line fixed to a modern progress capture device. Probably not very happily if there were also haulbags on the line underneath me.

Counter-weighting a haul mainly sees you jugging against the weight of the haulbags, rather than against the pcp cam. Overall it'll be reducing the load on the pcp cam, because the cam now only has to hold the weight of the haulbags minus the weight of you counter weighting them.

It does put more load on the pulley part of the pcp, but that's unlikely to be a problem. E.g. a microtrax is rated for 7.5kN on either side of the pulley. More than you should be hauling!

Also when you're counter weighting a haul, you should really be backed up the the anchor with another rope.

that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 236

I suggest everyone who hasn't, look at the edelrid videos on YouTube on cut resistance of ropes. If you watch them I imagine you'll come to the same conclusion as me in that jugging a haul line that has the weight of the bag on it is probably the worst thing you could do for your rope. 

Relevant video

https://youtu.be/IL2r_f2g4Sw?si=liU3TrHIIENs-mnC

Jugging on a toothed cam on the other hand while probably best avoided as I can't imagine it's good for the rope, the forces involved are still well below serious sheath damage of a big burly static line. 

Peter Zabrok · · Hamilton, ON · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 645
that guy named seb wrote:

... I imagine you'll come to the same conclusion as me in that jugging a haul line that has the weight of the bag on it is probably the worst thing you could do.

Duh. 

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
that guy named seb wrote:

Jugging on a toothed cam on the other hand while probably best avoided as I can't imagine it's good for the rope...

Yet that's what Jumars are and used for what 40 or 50 years?

The Flying Dutchman · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 25
Peter Zabrok wrote:

Duh. 

well to be very honest, that wasnt something that was clear to me, so thanks Dan for bringing this up. Also happy to hear you survived. I learned something from this thread and I hope many more did.

Peter Zabrok · · Hamilton, ON · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 645

^^ You only have to jug a weighted haul line above a pig ONCE to realize it's a bad idea. It's like trying to jug a steel rebar. 

Cosmic Hotdog · · Southern California · Joined Sep 2019 · Points: 335
Peter Zabrok wrote:

It's like trying to jug a steel rebar. 

Somehow, some way, that's what she said 

Peter Zabrok · · Hamilton, ON · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 645

^^ You complete me. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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