Did Someone add a bolt(s) to Book of Hate?

Bird Pers0n wrote:

Potentially does if we try the route in the future now that it is somewhat more “accessible”

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that a single bolt well up a 13d route does not make it more accessible. Maybe you guys have more faith in yourselves and others than I do but yeah, unless you have a prayer and can levitate, I don't think this is impacting accessibility. 

Bird Pers0n wrote:

The contention is a professional climber adding and/or using bolts on a classic route that has been climbed multiple times without the new bolt.

Think you are missing the point of the post a little bit with all the social media stuff you keep bringing up 

You’re the one muddying it with talk of her doing it for likes/money and that she’s going to lie about it anyway, etc.. Chop the bolt, stop lurking the IG of people you don’t like.

She didn’t add the bolt, why all the hate for something she didn’t do. What she did do is have a year of surgeries for hip replacement and then come back like a total boss and climb harder than we all do. Yes I’m positing the thesis that anyone who climbs harder than Sasha spends zero time in MP forums. 

Wait, did Sasha even clip the bolt?  

Doesn’t really matter, but the route is less “rodeo “ with it there.  It’s gotta go.

Such a sick line.

Bird Pers0n wrote:

Potentially does if we try the route in the future now that it is somewhat more “accessible”

Yea you climbing .13d?

Allen Sanderson wrote:

So if clipping the bolt eases that sequence then the route should be 13a. Regardless of the grade or that route or most any route, adding a bolt to a route was first done 25 years ago is lame.

So is using modern shoes with better rubber than they had back in the day. Same for super light and narrow head width cams. Be a purist, only use rigid stems and EBs.

Tony Danza wrote:

So is using modern shoes with better rubber than they had back in the day. Same for super light and narrow head width cams. Be a purist, only use rigid stems and EBs.

For the FA Randy was using Miuras, this was '99 not '80, so modern shoe rubber was already around as well as Alien cams or TCUs for narrow head width....

It's poor form to add bolts to any route without the FA's permission. 

Austin Donisan wrote:

If anybody else was curious about if there used to be a pin, I checked the FA video (starting around 10:50) and didn't see one. He nests ~4 pieces instead.

That is awesome. My first time watching Randy Leavitt climb.  Totally rad in muiras and smear gloves.  

The folks chuck-chilling at the base are hilarious.  The director/videographer calling for quiet is terrific.  

This video link is best thing to come from a controversial MP post about a new bolt.  

j mo wrote:

She didn’t add the bolt, why all the hate for something she didn’t do. What she did do is have a year of surgeries for hip replacement and then come back like a total boss and climb harder than we all do. Yes I’m positing the thesis that anyone who climbs harder than Sasha spends zero time in MP forums. 

She’s married bro, calm down

With or without the added bolt it's an incredible ascent. Frankly, there are already bolts on the climb. If it climbs better with the added bolt(s) I think it should be left. Hopefully in the future we will move away from the FA party having ownership of the section of rock for eternity. Ideally, a community of people who are able to and have climbed the route should be having this discussion in an open and transparent manner, including why adding a bolt seemed like the right course of action. I do value the opinion and ethic of the FA, but climbing is changing. 

climbing00 wrote:

With or without the added bolt it's an incredible ascent. Frankly, there are already bolts on the climb. If it climbs better with the added bolt(s) I think it should be left. Hopefully in the future we will move away from the FA party having ownership of the section of rock for eternity. Ideally, a community of people who are able to and have climbed the route should be having this discussion in an open and transparent manner, including why adding a bolt seemed like the right course of action. I do value the opinion and ethic of the FA, but climbing is changing. 

I respect your sentiment, but adding bolts to an existing route (without FA approval) just to make the crux section easier should never garnish support from any party, FA or otherwise. This is a slippery slope in today’s world and people shouldn’t be encouraged to add bolts just because they are too weak or scared (especially when it’s not dangerous, relatively speaking), as seems to be the case here. 

climbing00 wrote:

With or without the added bolt it's an incredible ascent. Frankly, there are already bolts on the climb. If it climbs better with the added bolt(s) I think it should be left. Hopefully in the future we will move away from the FA party having ownership of the section of rock for eternity. Ideally, a community of people who are able to and have climbed the route should be having this discussion in an open and transparent manner, including why adding a bolt seemed like the right course of action. I do value the opinion and ethic of the FA, but climbing is changing. 

Bullshit !! Climbing has always been about doing a climb in better style than those that have come before. If one can not respect that basic principle then one needs to stay home.

I will add more to why this is bullshit. From what has been said the bolt in question makes the climb easier. Usually the reason is "safety." In this case it was cause someone was too fucking weak to place gear. So what was a 13d gear route is now what a crux 13a sport route? That is really an accomplishment? Nope. not even worth the mouth masturbation on Instacrap. It is embarrassing that anyone would want to mouth masturbate about it when they have done it in lesser style. Especially if they have not admitted to doing in a style that was weaker than the previous ascents.

Allen Sanderson wrote:

Bullshit !! Climbing has always been about doing a climb in better style than those that have come before. If one cannot respect that basic principle then one needs to stay home.

Unfortunately that’s just not true anymore. The only “style” that matters these days is what clothing drop Anti Grav or Mellow puts out. 

Climbing, as a whole, has shifted away from the style you know and is now almost entirely focused on the hardest moves possible and comp style climbs. Damn youths 

Bryan L wrote:

For the FA Randy was using Miuras, this was '99 not '80, so modern shoe rubber was already around as well as Alien cams or TCUs for narrow head width....

It's poor form to add bolts to any route without the FA's permission. 

Yes, it is, but who cares? Why post about it and sound whiney? Chop the bolt, or shut up.

Has anyone actually talked to the FA about this? See if they care? See if they know about a new bolt? See if they would want it removed?

IDK man...

Desert Rock Sports wrote:

Has anyone actually talked to the FA about this? See if they care? See if they know about a new bolt? See if they would want it removed?

IDK man...

Slim Pickens · wrote:

"There’s actually a lively discussion taking place about this on Insta in a post by FA Randy Leavitt and FFA Beth Rodden. Based on the conversation there, I do not believe those bolts are long for this world."

Desert Rock Sports wrote:

Has anyone actually talked to the FA about this? See if they care? See if they know about a new bolt? See if they would want it removed?

IDK man...

Randy is aware. Try to keep up. You’re losing business. 

I think the bolt should be removed. My reasoning as follows:

• It's a trad climb
• The area can be protected with trad gear from what I have read and seen
• The fall is safe enough and even if it wasn't this climb is iconic and serves as a test piece for higher level climbers 
• Leaders have ascended the climb without bolts for decades at this point, why add one now?
• This isn't a beginner climb where new climbers need to be kept safe, it's a 5.13

Julian J wrote:

I think the bolt should be removed. My reasoning as follows:

• It's a trad climb
• The area can be protected with trad gear from what I have read and seen
• The fall is safe enough and even if it wasn't this climb is iconic and serves as a test piece for higher level climbers 
• Leaders have accented the climb without bolts for decades at this point, why add one now?
• This isn't a beginner climb where new climbers need to be kept safe, it's a 5.13

go do it