What would you want to see more of in the Front Range?

I'll go ahead and get the obvious one out of the way - "More bomber rock"

What would you want to see more of in the front range? We all want to see more 3000ft faces of shear, impeccable granite, interspersed with splitter sandstone cracks in an area with plenty of well-maintained, free camping that is only used by climbers - but beyond that, what do you wish we had here? My take below

Climbing:

• Established, trafficked, slab boulder problems - things like Yosemite's "Initial Friction" and "Blue Suede Shoes" or Bishop's "Robinson's Rubber Tester", etc.
• Drytooling options - there's so much choss tucked away that would never be rock climbed
• Mixed climbing (as in trad gear + bolts, with meaningful climbing over both) - oftentimes things are either left as poorly protected trad lines or the gear-protected climbing is bolted over

Community:

• More people bringing wrenches and maybe a spare steel biner or two to the crag to tighten bolts/replace bad loweroffs
• Local guidebooks, maybe even 3-10page flipbook type guides
• Outdoor climbing comps
• Weird/fun/hardman challenges. Ultimate Ape Linkup, Long's Peak Triathlon, etc.

Tal Mwrote:

I'll go ahead and get the obvious one out of the way - "More bomber rock"

What would you want to see more of in the front range? We all want to see more 3000ft faces of shear, impeccable granite, interspersed with splitter sandstone cracks in an area with plenty of well-maintained, free camping that is only used by climbers - but beyond that, what do you wish we had here? My take below

Climbing:

• Established, trafficked, slab boulder problems - things like Yosemite's "Initial Friction" and "Blue Suede Shoes" or Bishop's "Robinson's Rubber Tester", etc.
• Drytooling options - there's so much choss tucked away that would never be rock climbed
• Mixed climbing (as in trad gear + bolts, with meaningful climbing over both) - oftentimes things are either left as poorly protected trad lines or the gear-protected climbing is bolted over

Community:

• More people bringing wrenches and maybe a spare steel biner or two to the crag to tighten bolts/replace bad loweroffs
• Local guidebooks, maybe even 3-10page flipbook type guides
• Outdoor climbing comps
• Weird/fun/hardman challenges. Ultimate Ape Linkup, Long's Peak Triathlon, etc.

+1 re: dry tooling

bring back the farmed ice in bocan 

More camping options

More private areas made public

South facing cave climbing

Ice parks

Less gang-roping

+2: dry tooling

More wag-bag stations 

More Mussy hooks

Fewer dogs at the crag

More shady (multipitch) routes in the South Platte. It seems like a lot of routes were established in the winter and chased the sun, but sections of it are high elevation enough that it would be tolerable to climb in the summer if there were more shady options.

Chris Gardnerwrote:

More shady (multipitch) routes in the South Platte. It seems like a lot of routes were established in the winter and chased the sun, but sections of it are high elevation enough that it would be tolerable to climb in the summer if there were more shady options.

As someone who predominantly develops in the platte, this is unfortunately just the nature of the geology in the region. Most cliffs form south or southwest facing. In the area I’ve been developing, out of the 2 dozen or so named formations we have, I think 5 or fewer face a direction other than south/southwest - and of those that do, maybe 1 is big enough for some short 2 pitch routes (160ft or so)

More single pitch crack climbing with a short approach and mussy hooks for efficient crack training

Fewer people

Carpooling. And/or if the parking is full where you are wanting to climb that day, accepting it and finding somewhere else to climb. Ideally where your not illegally parking, risking access etc. for the rest of us. 

Tal Mwrote:

I'll go ahead and get the obvious one out of the way - "More bomber rock"

What would you want to see more of in the front range? We all want to see more 3000ft faces of shear, impeccable granite, interspersed with splitter sandstone cracks in an area with plenty of well-maintained, free camping that is only used by climbers - but beyond that, what do you wish we had here? My take below

Climbing:

• Established, trafficked, slab boulder problems - things like Yosemite's "Initial Friction" and "Blue Suede Shoes" or Bishop's "Robinson's Rubber Tester", etc.
• Drytooling options - there's so much choss tucked away that would never be rock climbed
• Mixed climbing (as in trad gear + bolts, with meaningful climbing over both) - oftentimes things are either left as poorly protected trad lines or the gear-protected climbing is bolted over

Community:

• More people bringing wrenches and maybe a spare steel biner or two to the crag to tighten bolts/replace bad loweroffs
• Local guidebooks, maybe even 3-10page flipbook type guides
• Outdoor climbing comps
• Weird/fun/hardman challenges. Ultimate Ape Linkup, Long's Peak Triathlon, etc.

Nothing is stopping you from spearheading any of these projects!

Mark Westfallwrote:

Nothing is stopping you from spearheading any of these projects!

Way ahead of you mark! Here’s a photo of my new drytool route from this week, for my 44th new route of the year. I actually created this thread to see what folks want so I can prioritize the million things on my to-do list, which also includes a new local guidebook with some silly multisport challenges

Outdoor comps!?!  As if the place isn’t getting loved to death as it is.  Comps will just concentrate impacts and bring more people to the crags. No thank you. 

Greg Dwrote:

Outdoor comps!?!  As if the place isn’t getting loved to death as it is.  Comps will just concentrate impacts and bring more people to the crags. No thank you. 

Outdoor comps generally also involve clean up work, partnership with land managers, etc. I didn’t explicitly state that, but legally those things are required if it’s an entry fee type comp. It might also do well to spread climber concentration (or hyperfocus it on areas that have been hardened enough to handle to traffic). But I won’t pretend it is a no-negative situation - definitely should be done sparingly and intentionally

Ice climbs.

Tal Mwrote:

Outdoor comps generally also involve clean up work, partnership with land managers, etc. I didn’t explicitly state that, but legally those things are required if it’s an entry fee type comp. It might also do well to spread climber concentration (or hyperfocus it on areas that have been hardened enough to handle to traffic). But I won’t pretend it is a no-negative situation - definitely should be done sparingly and intentionally

Hey Tal,  I’m sure the cleanup committee would have the greatest intentions as you would from the very beginning. But even the most amazing committee won’t be able to get rid of the little social trails nor would they be able to bring back all the vegetation that will get trampled.

Greg Dwrote:

Hey Tal,  I’m sure the cleanup committee would have the greatest intentions as you would from the very beginning. But even the most amazing committee won’t be able to get rid of the little social trails nor would they be able to bring back all the vegetation that will get trampled.

I don’t disagree with you - but ultimately that’s a decision for our land managers to make, on what sort of impact is acceptable.

Tal Mwrote:

I don’t disagree with you - but ultimately that’s a decision for our land managers to make, on what sort of impact is acceptable.

It’s funny, no actually pathetic that you don’t disagree with me about the impact it will have. 

So no. Actually no. The so called land managers don’t have to make any decision if self serving ego maniacs like you don’t need to prove yourself by competing on outdoor rock.

Rock climbing is one of the most amazing athletic endeavors for so many reasons. For one,  you only need to compete against yourself. If you need a ribbon or trophy to prove your self, go back to high school track or basketball or whatever you need to feel good about yourself. Don’t eff up the public land any more than the masses already have. 

Greg Dwrote:

It’s funny, no actually pathetic that you don’t disagree with me about the impact it will have. 

So no. Actually no. The so called land managers don’t have to make any decision if self serving ego maniacs like you need to prove yourself by competing on outdoor rock.

Rock climbing is one of the most amazing athletic endeavors for so many reasons. For one,  you only need to compete against yourself. If you need a fucking ribbon or trophy to prove your self, go back to high school track or basketball or whatever you need to feel good about yourself. Don’t fuck up the public land any more than the masses already have. 

Hey Greg, I sure hope this isn't how you communicate with other people in your normal life - this is quite an aggressive, demeaning, and strange response to, what was a good faith conversation about a theoretical situation. 

Regardless, a quick glance at my tick list would show I'm in no place to compete against anyone in any competition and expect more than a participation trophy. However, I've really enjoyed the one outdoor competition I've done, Horseshoe Hell, and would love to see more community events centered around outdoor climbing. Community is a big reason we're all here, isn't it? And as fun as it is to trade war stories around a couple of beers at the bar or campfire, having an organized event is a good time - much like how it's done in trail running, mountain biking, skiing, and just about every other opportunity for outdoor recreation on earth. 

It looks like you're local to the front range as well - maybe we can talk this out in person one day - though I don't recall meeting you at any of the trail or rebolt days I've been to between Shelf and Estes. Maybe a future one - feel free to message me if you want to plan a volunteer day together and have a more genial and genuine discussion about all of this. Sounds like we both just want the best possible climbing ecosystem we can have, and just have disagreements about what that looks like and/or how to get there.

+1 more mixed climbing

Bringing a wrench and steel biners to the crag is also a great idea. 

More stakeholder collaborations like what happened between JCOS, BCC, and various corporate sponsors / volunteers to open up durable and well-planned climbing areas like Narrow Gauge Slabs!

More kind attitudes. I’ve experienced more put-downs and unsolicited criticism by climbers within the last 3 years of living in CO than anywhere else.

Good speed ice climbing areas