Any other women get delayed onset muscle soreness, even after years of climbing?

I climb an average of 2x weekly, 4-hour sessions for the past 3 years (lead climbing with some bouldering when I can't sport). I don't tend to do many warm-ups, just my favorite grade range which is my max onsight range. I don't project often, so I'm not doing anything crazy strenuous, just a slight push.

Especially after a cold day, I feel almost sick the day after with body aches. They're not like really bad but I swear this isn't how most people feel. I've been climbing for years. Does anyone else still get this?

Hmm, thanks. Maybe I should’ve asked in the injury forum. My general pain tolerance is high and I don’t tend to really ibuprofen for headaches and things like that. Just feel like my recovery isn’t quite right since aside from skipping warmups, I don’t go crazy when I climb, just 4-6 hour sessions with some pushing max onsight grade. 

Alaina, since this was posted in the Women's Forum I was reticent to post but the subject interests me very much, so I hope you don't mind me butting in.

I would get DOMS so bad and just have a sort of "muscle flu" a lot of the time. Things like arnica, magnesium oil, and anti-inflammatory herbs would help somewhat to treat it after the fact, but I knew they weren't addressing the why I would suffer so much. I do not take advil/tylenol/etc. Changing my diet and no alcohol helped significantly for a lot of years but only got me so far. Then I had nothing short of miraculous results, and I mean miraculous, from L-citrulline,a few grams a day ( and strangely only one brand worked by far the best, and I tried 8-10 brands). BUT I would be very very careful and ultimately do not recommend it, or at least not how I did it. Online info claims it's safe with only minor gastro side effects from taking too much. The short story is I believe it triggered glaucoma for me. I can give you the longer story and details if interested. It might work on a prescriptive/as needed level but do not recommend as daily maintenance day in day out even though the internet says it's safe. 

I thought it might be Lyme related but at this point think it's a liver/gut health issue. So I'd look towards cleaning up your diet, cleaning your liver, and maybe a some simple gut health protocols. I can point to some things that have helped me, but we're all different.

Heyzeus I'm interested! If it's an amino acid, why would it cause glaucoma? I actually may be deficient in some amino acids. So that kind of makes sense. I try to take a collagen supplement with glycine added. It could be gut health for me. I would love to hear more about what helped you.

I have a noticed a correlation between my hydration levels and post workout recovery/soreness. It’s not much but an easy way to check a box as you start looking for a cause. 

have you tried shortening your sessions?  4 hours sounds like a really long time to be climbing.  try 2 hours and see if you still get them? and if you have time maybe you could add a third Sess a week to get your climb time back. but if you don't start with 2 hours and slowing increase climbing time.  The other thing I would look at is intensity, and maybe scale the intensity or volume during the climb time down?  some details about what your sessions look like could be helpful?  I'm guessing your just really working those muscles and they feel sore.  Also, if your not getting injured maybe the doms is not a big deal for you?  I would just be worried about injury risk for you with long sessions like that and getting sore every time.  

Not a ton of information here but I'll take a stab at this. Mentioning "especially cold days" makes me think it at least partially related to hydration levels as we normally tend to under feed our bodies during sessions when we're cold. Not warming up is likely also related and exasperated by "cold days". Are you vegan or vegetarian? Asking as it might be related to the amino acid thing previously mentioned and also potentially creatine or iron deficiency, which can increase muscle soreness. Here's some info, if you're willing to give it, that would help people understand your issue and potential solutions. Likely what a doctor will ask you if you go that route so you can prep. Full disclosure I am definitely not a doctor or dietician, but I have some medical training and a bunch of experience in figuring out weird issues.

Diet:

Are you vegetarian or vegan?

Do you feel like your diet is well-balanced?

Are you eating/drinking during these sessions? 

Do you feel particularly dehydrated after these sessions and/or during the soreness phase? Does rehydrating curb symptoms at all?

What's your calorie intake before/during/after look like?

Medical:

History of previous, pertinent injuries?

Are you taking any medications that have side effects pertinent to this?

Any potential genetic conditions that you know of?

Have you taken anything during the soreness phase, medication or otherwise, that has helped?

What have you tried that hasn't worked?

Has it affected your ability to sleep or wake up?

Sport related:

Are these typically your only workouts you do in a week?

Do you feel this way after other strenuous activities?

Do you do any recovery work when you feel this way (stretching, foam rolling, etc)? Has anything helped to improve the condition? Has anything made it worse?

What do your other five days look like... active days, rest days, etc.

Obviously, you won't want to post on the internet but I would also ask about your poop and pee. They're good indicators of your general health and potential GI issues among other things like vitamin deficiencies and a whole host of other potential issues. If they're different in the soreness phase than normal, that's a really good indicator to see a doctor. Honestly, if you've tried corrective things and they're not working its probably time to see a doctor. "Especially cold days" could potentially be related to a problem with the nervous system as well. The issue your experiencing is could be just a symptom of a larger thing that could be easily manageable with the right lifestyle/medication/diet choices. You won't know unless you go.

Thanks Bolting Karen, dehydration could be at play! Why is that common when it's cold? Other than not wanting cold water/not feeling as thirsty without sun hitting me. I do get really thirsty the night after climbing, but I have low sodium so sometimes if I try to rehydrate too quickly immediately after, my body doesn't hold onto it/it doesn't actually help. So I haven't found an easy solution. I'm not vegetarian but I probably don't as much protein as I should. Sometimes I add collagen and glycine powder to my drink. I only do mild workouts other than climbing. My iron is low normal. Stretching, massage gun, etc. do help but not with the chills or aches that feel more like when you're sick (although they resolve on their own within 24 hours, so I'm not actually sick). I have a desk job but do go for walks and do planks on my rest days, sometimes boulder in my basement or at a friends', and do pushups and pull-ups. Haven't done weighted in a while. Pigeon pose daily.

I do have Raynaud's. What are you thinking with the nervous system? I wouldn't have thought Raynaud's would play a role (mine is primary, so no known cause/no associated condition to worry about) but you mentioning the nervous system has me curious. Mine flares up when there's moisture in the air even more so than in the cold, but cold + moisture is the absolute worst.

Probably deficient in calories, working on it…used to cook spinach after climbing and haven't in a while. I think that used to help a bit too. Or green veggies, artichoke tea and then just chicken and Greek yogurt and things with high protein. I don't feel this way after other strenuous activities, but I love climbing so much that it may be the only strenuous activity that I do for enough hours in a row? Other than being in the pit at concerts or digging for crystals, and those don't make me feel sick.

Previous injuries…just broken feet from climbing, hand injury, low back injury, one possible minor concussion from a lead fall, everything's healed.

No medications. I quit ibuprofen because I knew it was bad to take before sessions. No genetic conditions that I'm away of. Any you're thinking about specifically?

Ibuprofen helps but I don't want to rely on it after working out, seems counterproductive. Poor quality sleep may play into this. I've tried sleeping better and that hasn't worked.

Kiki N wrote:

have you tried shortening your sessions?  4 hours sounds like a really long time to be climbing.  try 2 hours and see if you still get them? and if you have time maybe you could add a third Sess a week to get your climb time back. but if you don't start with 2 hours and slowing increase climbing time.  The other thing I would look at is intensity, and maybe scale the intensity or volume during the climb time down?  some details about what your sessions look like could be helpful?  I'm guessing your just really working those muscles and they feel sore.  Also, if your not getting injured maybe the doms is not a big deal for you?  I would just be worried about injury risk for you with long sessions like that and getting sore every time.  

I'll be able to test this out soon! My "home crag" is almost 2hrs away so I have to do 4-6 hour sessions, but they're opening a gym by me soon, so in a month I'll be able to space out my climbing. I still prefer outdoor, but it'll be indoor season with only sporadic outdoor nice days by then.

My outdoor sessions were pretty intense. Not project-level intense, but a few routes at the top of my onsight grade, some with sustained cruxes using most of a 70 meter rope, a sorta rough hike (steep and just a bad "trail" that's corroding and easy to trip/you're walking the side of a cliff with kinda no trail), or if on TR at least two project-grade routes and more than one go on the cruxes.

Plus medium-grade routes (not cakewalk warmups but not hard). So nothing insane at all but I like to push myself and not do all casual.

Hey I'm still interested in what you were thinking. About nervous system issues, etc. I climbed 10+s at the Gunks all day yesterday, didn't feel that beat/could've climbed harder and longer if it weren't for sundown. But today, bad headache. And again, muscles aren't that sore but body aches lol. Headache is the worst part though.