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Indethics (Index Ethics)

Original Post
Ben jamin · · Ann Arbor, MI · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 1,812

Hello Mountain Project Hive-Mind,

I'm working on a fun little project and am currently trying to write a little blurb about ethics in Index.
Note: I do not care about other areas like the Exits or Yosemite for this question (other threads already exist for that). I'm talking about Index.

Given the complexity and vastly varied opinions of the subject, I would love to get some feedback from the climbing community.
Please be respectful to others who have different opinions and don't make be regret asking this!!
I will just lock or delete this if it devolves into folks arguing with each other because they disagree with someone else's opinion. 

In short, I'm curious to know:

1. What are the fundamental ethical principles of climbing and development in Index?
2. If you were to write a ten commandments, what would be in there?
3. What commonly-held ethical considerations should not be in there?
4. Are there other things or considerations to keep in mind when writing about this?

I've asked a lot of people from varying backgrounds these questions already and have gotten a vastly different answer each time.

  • Folks who were climbing before the bolt wars often talk about limiting the over-bolting of rock.
  • Younger sport climbers who grew up in the gym often care about adding more bolts to keep things safe - often wanting to add bolts to existing climbs.
  • Lots of folks say that it's important to keep an open mind and adapt ethical considerations to the changing context of the day.

What do you all think?

T Taylor · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2022 · Points: 268


Brush thy moss

Pat Marrinan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2019 · Points: 25

-Thou shall not set TR's on the 'Uberclassics' (Godzilla, Tattoosh, Cunning Stunt, Toxic Shock, etc) for a ridiculously long time or at least offer to let people work in

-Thou shall respect the speed limits and road signs while driving through town

-Thou shall pick up your trash and that of others

-Thou shall not fill cracks with railroad grease

-Thou shall not complain the grades are sandbagged but enjoy the challenge 

-If you are cooking something that smells really good at Wagon Wheel you should offer me some (looking at that guy always making bacon for breakfast) 

-Thou shall respect fixed ropes and route developers while they try to improve the area for us

-Thou shall stay on trail and attempt to minimize erosion

-Thou shall be a steward for Index and tell your friends it is indeed Choss

-Be friendly, make new friends, offer laps on your TR's

Jon Nelson · · Redmond, WA · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 8,753

Bold move, Ben. 

Anyway, Index climbers have historically been rather tolerant of a wide variety of views and approaches to routes and trails. At Index, a guy can come along and, without asking, create a route or trail, with his own special touches, and others don't complain that he didn't make a survey first or get a permit. I hope things can continue like this.

1) Minimize the use of the drill bit while maximizing the potential to enjoy safe and clean rock. The rock, being the thing that makes Index so attractive, should locally have precedence over the vegetation, which can be found many other places and has no trouble at all sprouting up when left alone. 

3) Leave no trace. This is obviously impossible, so something more practical is needed. I would say that instead, once the debris has settled, the scene should be something that could pass in a wild garden. Index is a wild garden--for climbers. 

Sam Boyce · · Changes with the seasons · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 1,788

- Do not add bolts to existing routes without FA permission. If the route gets frequently climbed in it's Runout state (frequently enough to keep moss at bay), then the opinion of the FA and consensus opinion is irrelevant and the route should remain in its current state.

-consider the potential value of new routes before cleaning. 

-cleaning activity should only happen at night or during off season and always with a spotter. 

- be consistent with grades on new climbs. 

-use only stainless hardware; anchors should be chest height or higher above natural stances on multi pitch routes.

- be considerate with fixed lines. Index has the best TR access in the country. Yosemite employs the 24hr rule for ropes and gear, and while considerations are drastically different, that sentiment feels appropriate for project lines. If you will be away for more than 24hrs, take it down and take it out. 

- ground-up parties have right of way over drop ins on all multi pitches. 

- document and report abuse of 14 day stay limits (this is not aimed at climbers but more at tweakers who stay at/near wagon wheel). 

- dogs must be on a tight leash at all times (or better remain at home). 

Dylan Stuart · · Juneau, AK · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 910

-You are allowed one bronze starfish or turtle hold per route. 

Hangdog Hank · · Leavenworth, WA · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 2,051

I feel that there should be some inclusion about limiting impacts of guiding activities, almost every negative experience I have had at index with people being rude/hogging routes have been guides. 

I also feel that retro bolting should be allowed if the route had to be reclaimed from that jungle... I mean at that point its basically an FA

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Pacific Northwest
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