Cold Cold World Chaos Customizations

I'm currently looking at picking up a Chaos in a size medium (66L) from Randy and was wondering if you guys had any recommendations for customizations I might not have thought of yet. I'll be using this for The Kautz on Rainier and similar climbs with the goal of eventually moving on up in altitude, if you guys think a Chernobyl might be a better fit than the Chaos then I'm all ears. 

The customizations I'm thinking of so far are:

Remove the Ski slots, adding in a NEMO Switchback sleeping pad or a Cilo Gear Framesheet to replace the bivy pad, going with rope straps on the top of the pack, might use dyneema grid fabric instead of the 500 Codura, and using the split or full sleeves for a universal ice tool attachment/modern holders like the Chernobyl instead of the current two loops (non negotiable)

Anything else you guys can think of?

Front grab handle and reversing the shoulder strap tighteners so they are like every other pack. Do it - you’ll love your CCW.
I have a Chernobyl. 

I have a chaos that has been bulletproof for the past 5 years. The only things I dislike are the old school axe loops. Those should be banished on all packs. If you're ever going to ski I'd keep the ski loops. A lot of the pnw volcanoes are skiable even if just the approach and descent with walking somewhere in between.

Graham Johnsonwrote:

Front grab handle and reversing the shoulder strap tighteners so they are like every other pack. Do it - you’ll love your CCW.
I have a Chernobyl. 

Bit of a question about the shoulder straps, read on a thread from 2018 I think that having them pull upwards means you don't have a buckle digging into your shoulders if that's an issue. I've only ever used downward tighteners so was just curious as to what your reasoning was

Thanks!

Jake woowrote:

I have a chaos that has been bulletproof for the past 5 years. The only things I dislike are the old school axe loops. Those should be banished on all packs. If you're ever going to ski I'd keep the ski loops. A lot of the pnw volcanoes are skiable even if just the approach and descent with walking somewhere in between.

Yea I had the old loops on a previous non-CCW pack and it was only good for a classic ice axe, it's why I'm willing to die on the hill of having the ice tool carrying system put in like every other modern bag. I think I'll keep the ski loops then, while I do a good bit of skiing I've never tried SkiMo, mostly because I don't know anyone who does it, but with how long everyone says these packs last it'll be worth the added ounces.

Do you have the upward pulling shoulder tighteners for your Chaos or did you have them reversed? 

Thanks

My Chaos is modified as below, and then used for about 10 years now. Including four Denalis, a Waddington Range Traverse, and dozens of deep Wind River Range/High Sierra longer rock climbing trips. I even used it for three days of backpacking with my then 6-month old daughter. All our stuff in the Chaos, her in a chest carrier. Another “off label” use was carrying, twice, quartered deer from Paiute Pass above Bishop. It’s held up well to all the fairly intense use. 

• No daisy chains. Good choice.
• “Leashless” tool holders. Unnecessary. I would prefer, on a pack like this, the old school loops. Yes, even for modern tools without adze/hammer 
• Slimmed down all the compression straps to narrower materials and buckles. Good choice
• Had him use even beefier fabric for the bottom. Also, good choice
• Early on I wished I’d had him make the “brain” less complex. As it is, it has three zippers/pockets. I’ve gotten used to it and now like having that organizational option, at the cost of a few grams. The Velcro on pack and brain, to join the two, is useless. 
• I had the rope strap installed with base and buckle both on one side of the lid opening. And then a loop on the other side. To close the strap over the top and across a rope, or something like a rope, the strap runs across, through the distant anchor loop, and back to its start to close the buckle. Sorta weird and unnecessarily complicated. I had some reason to ask for that, at the time. To do over again I’d have it installed one-way over the top but longer than stock.
• I put a full sheet of 40Below.com “tent floor liner” foam in the frame sheet slot. Just fits. Gotta fold it just right. Way versatile and valuable on any trip that requires a pack this big. On expeditions on which I might be carrying big loads while the tent and sleeping pad and bag stay set up, I also have a piece of kitchen tent butt pad foam. This foam becomes the frame sheet while carrying for such a cache day.
• No ski slots. Regular side compression straps worked fine for carrying skis up high on Denali. Even with nearly empty pack. 
• My final point, maybe making this all moot: the Chaos is more like a Denali or week+ pack. The Chernobyl is what I would choose for anything on Rainier. 

Yea they're different but I actually like the upward pulling straps. As far as customizations go , I had some molle webbing sewed on the lid plus some horizontal lashing straps added to the back.  His packs are great amd he's an easy guy to talk to.

Michael, I do have the upward pull shoulder straps and I think they're fine. It never occurred to me to not like them. I agree with almost everything Jediah mentioned, especially the useless Velcro and thinning all the straps. Though I still don't like the old school tool loops. For modern tools without an adze or large hammer they don't work without futzing and even for axes with adzes they are slower and cumbersome to attach relative to newer methods.

Jediah, do you have a better way to attach ice tools with the old loops?

Jake woowrote:

Michael, I do have the upward pull shoulder straps and I think they're fine. It never occurred to me to not like them. I agree with almost everything Jediah mentioned, especially the useless Velcro and thinning all the straps. Though I still don't like the old school tool loops. For modern tools without an adze or large hammer they don't work without futzing and even for axes with adzes they are slower and cumbersome to attach relative to newer methods.

Jediah, do you have a better way to attach ice tools with the old loops?

I have the old style loops on my Valdez.  I just pull the whole loop through the head of the tool and clip it to the first loop of the daisy chain with a carabiners.  It's a non-issue but if I was doing it all over again I'd ask for modern style ice tool attachments.

Jake907wrote:

I have the old style loops on my Valdez.  I just pull the whole loop through the head of the tool and clip it to the first loop of the daisy chain with a carabiners.  It's a non-issue but if I was doing it all over again I'd ask for modern style ice tool attachments.

I've been doing similar. Pull through and clip to something. Just not as tight or svelte as the new stuff. Thanks for sharing your method.

I have all of Randy's packs.  Now that I pay for my backpacks, I've decided to use CCW exclusively for the most part. 

Like Jed, I like the stock ice axe loops. Those little buckles can break and can be pesky with snow or ice in them. 

My Chaos is a stock medium, and Randy put a double bottom on mine. It's ten years old, been around the block and it's still going strong. Denali or extended Rainier or cold weather rainier trips or winter multi days are what this pack is for. I've used mine on early season rainier trips, many trips into the wind river range, and more Presidential Range winter traverses than I care to repeat. I like the velcro to keep the lid in place when I tuck it into the pack. 

My Chernobyl is stock medium, been up Rainier in June a number of times, is big enough for big pack into the base of big ice type of days. It's up and over many peaks in the No. Cascades in summer and autumn, done one night presidential range traverses, and has been getting beat on for 8-9 years.  It smelIed so bad at one point I washed it in the washing machine and came out fine. even did a 6 day Gannet Peak trip with it once. The daisy chains got used that trip.  

BONUS MATERIAL: My Valdez and Ozone are both in grid ripstop, and they are lighter, but less durable than the heavier textiles. The Ozone is wise in codura and the valdez is too. I beat on those packs day in and day out.  The codura ones I had previously are basically indestructible. In fact a guy one time offered me $100 and his wild things pack for my Valdez. So of course I told him to save his money and order a new one.  My Valdez's have had the modern tool attachment in the last 2 I've had. My ozone has a detachable lid, snow collar, and the Wejchert tool attachments. I've only used those tool loops a handful of times for summer climbs. 

Cold Cold Worlds packs: more durable than the climber who wears them.  Or maybe the Chuck Norris of climbing packs. 

Matt Shovewrote:

I have all of Randy's packs.  Now that I pay for my backpacks, I've decided to use CCW exclusively for the most part. 

Like Jed, I like the stock ice axe loops. Those little buckles can break and can be pesky with snow or ice in them. 

My Chaos is a stock medium, and Randy put a double bottom on mine. It's ten years old, been around the block and it's still going strong. Denali or extended Rainier or cold weather rainier trips or winter multi days are what this pack is for. I've used mine on early season rainier trips, many trips into the wind river range, and more Presidential Range winter traverses than I care to repeat. I like the velcro to keep the lid in place when I tuck it into the pack. 

My Chernobyl is stock medium, been up Rainier in June a number of times, is big enough for big pack into the base of big ice type of days. It's up and over many peaks in the No. Cascades in summer and autumn, done one night presidential range traverses, and has been getting beat on for 8-9 years.  It smelIed so bad at one point I washed it in the washing machine and came out fine. even did a 6 day Gannet Peak trip with it once. The daisy chains got used that trip.  

BONUS MATERIAL: My Valdez and Ozone are both in grid ripstop, and they are lighter, but less durable than the heavier textiles. The Ozone is wise in codura and the valdez is too. I beat on those packs day in and day out.  The codura ones I had previously are basically indestructible. In fact a guy one time offered me $100 and his wild things pack for my Valdez. So of course I told him to save his money and order a new one.  My Valdez's have had the modern tool attachment in the last 2 I've had. My ozone has a detachable lid, snow collar, and the Wejchert tool attachments. I've only used those tool loops a handful of times for summer climbs. 

Cold Cold Worlds packs: more durable than the climber who wears them.  Or maybe the Chuck Norris of climbing packs. 

Thanks for all the info, a quick question, did you have the pack made out of the Cordura or did you get it made out of Dyneema? I keep seeing people post pictures of their bags made out of Dyneema but I have yet to see anyone actually explain why they prefer it over the standard 500d Cordura.

jediah porterwrote:

My Chaos is modified as below, and then used for about 10 years now. Including four Denalis, a Waddington Range Traverse, and dozens of deep Wind River Range/High Sierra longer rock climbing trips. I even used it for three days of backpacking with my then 6-month old daughter. All our stuff in the Chaos, her in a chest carrier. Another “off label” use was carrying, twice, quartered deer from Paiute Pass above Bishop. It’s held up well to all the fairly intense use. 

• No daisy chains. Good choice.
• “Leashless” tool holders. Unnecessary. I would prefer, on a pack like this, the old school loops. Yes, even for modern tools without adze/hammer 
• Slimmed down all the compression straps to narrower materials and buckles. Good choice
• Had him use even beefier fabric for the bottom. Also, good choice
• Early on I wished I’d had him make the “brain” less complex. As it is, it has three zippers/pockets. I’ve gotten used to it and now like having that organizational option, at the cost of a few grams. The Velcro on pack and brain, to join the two, is useless. 
• I had the rope strap installed with base and buckle both on one side of the lid opening. And then a loop on the other side. To close the strap over the top and across a rope, or something like a rope, the strap runs across, through the distant anchor loop, and back to its start to close the buckle. Sorta weird and unnecessarily complicated. I had some reason to ask for that, at the time. To do over again I’d have it installed one-way over the top but longer than stock.
• I put a full sheet of 40Below.com “tent floor liner” foam in the frame sheet slot. Just fits. Gotta fold it just right. Way versatile and valuable on any trip that requires a pack this big. On expeditions on which I might be carrying big loads while the tent and sleeping pad and bag stay set up, I also have a piece of kitchen tent butt pad foam. This foam becomes the frame sheet while carrying for such a cache day.
• No ski slots. Regular side compression straps worked fine for carrying skis up high on Denali. Even with nearly empty pack. 
• My final point, maybe making this all moot: the Chaos is more like a Denali or week+ pack. The Chernobyl is what I would choose for anything on Rainier. 

Thank you for the write up, a question I had was regarding the the beefier fabric section. Would you recommend I choose a double bottom as well or just the fabric? Also do you have an opinion on the Dyneema vs standard 500d Cordura debate that pops up on some of the CCW threads on here?

My Chaos and Chernobyl are standard cordura fabrics. My Ozone and Valdez are both made from the grid ripstop with the dyneema strands.  Looks good, and is lightweight relative to the OG packs. I like them but I can already tell they won't last as long as the original models. I think when I replace them I might get the standard fabrics.  

I have the feeling that the Robic fabrics Randy can get is a bit tougher than the grid ripstop. If I was going to do it again, I would go with standard cordura for durability. 

Michael Solandwrote:

Thank you for the write up, a question I had was regarding the the beefier fabric section. Would you recommend I choose a double bottom as well or just the fabric? Also do you have an opinion on the Dyneema vs standard 500d Cordura debate that pops up on some of the CCW threads on here?

Ain’t nothing wrong with doubling up the bottom. With the same rationale on fabric choice: straps and stitching is gonna last a long time. Might as well have fabric that will keep up. A few ounces won’t hurt. 

Jake woowrote:

Michael, I do have the upward pull shoulder straps and I think they're fine. It never occurred to me to not like them. I agree with almost everything Jediah mentioned, especially the useless Velcro and thinning all the straps. Though I still don't like the old school tool loops. For modern tools without an adze or large hammer they don't work without futzing and even for axes with adzes they are slower and cumbersome to attach relative to newer methods.

Jediah, do you have a better way to attach ice tools with the old loops?

I do the same as both Jake’s mention. I like it. Low profile. Nothing to break. Lighter. 

Have you called Randy yet to tell him what you're into and go over a couple pros/cons of customisations? He was super helpful over the phone in setting me up with a Chernobyl

Jon Browherwrote:

Have you called Randy yet to tell him what you're into and go over a couple pros/cons of customisations? He was super helpful over the phone in setting me up with a Chernobyl

Yea talked to Randy, we ended up with:

universal tool holder

no ski slot

no daisy chain on sides

I kept the standard 500 Cordura Material and turns out the bottom is already doubled, he couldn't make any straps smaller. The various other modifications mentioned above he said he couldn't make or they just weren't worth it after some discussion. 

If you have any recommendations, I can email him about it, he said there will be a few month lead time so I've got some time before its all locked in. 

He was incredibly helpful and understanding, 10/10 process for getting it all set up.