Falling on gear, who does it?

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Depends. When I was mostly trad climbing I found sport climbs often intimidating because I had to actually climb to the next bolt instead of slamming in a piece right in front of my nose. That's contrary to how most of the chest thumping traddies see themselves but it's often reality. A letter grade or so is completely understandable though. What I don't get is if you look at people's profiles they often list a full grade or even two grades difference. That tells me that they are putting trad climbing on a pedestal and not realizing that it is just climbing with gear. Nothing special about it that should intimidate you as long as it is g rated. 

Or, maybe, the two disciplines are just graded differently? Or grading, in general, is unreliable?

I'm a WORSE sport climber than trad climber and I still climb higher rated sport climbs. 

Not trusting gear is one thing, but what if you're not sure there's going to be a placement to keep you off the deck with the rack you have? Sport climbing you can usually see where the bolts are but with trad climbing it's not always clear where the next placement will be (or if you've burned the cam that will fit)

Jasonwrote:

 (or if you've burned the cam that will fit)

Meanwhile, the "I guess I may as well take an extra number ___ just in case" crowd is over here like ...

Someone back on page 1 mentioned aid climbing. Aiding has taught me a lot about placement quality. A LOT. I’ve taken some pretty big falls on gear in both aid and trad contexts and have been caught by some pretty small pieces.

I try to maintain situational awareness about things that are objectively hazardous—ledges, sharp aretes, falls that are going to be big swingers—and climb with commensurate caution in the presence of those hazards. But that’s as true for bolts as it is for gear. Clean falls, I’ll take em all day.

Gear is good. 

When I was a more enthusiastic climber, I used to launch my body off gear all the time — I’ve fallen on every size cam down to 0.1 and the smallest nuts. Sparse placements. Absolute wingers on tiny pro. My belayers feared belaying me. Been surprised how many pieces have held despite being kinda terrible/desperate placements and because of that, I learned to trust my gear. I’ve never had a piece rip on a fall.

Now though, I am significantly less bold because I realized I can actually get hurt (and did after a wicked fall). Nothing like mortality slapping you in the face to make you realize “climbing is inherently dangerous”. I still trust gear, but no more run-outs and bold spacing when I’m climbing around my limit. 

I think I also trusted falling on tiny (mediocre) pro because I am a smaller climber. At 105lbs, me taking a phat whip on a 0.2 is going to exert significantly less force than a 210lb man barreling down from space. Chances of ripping gear are slimmer — probably why I haven’t ripped gear(?) f=ma

I am way the fck over 200# with a 36v bosch, a rack of pins, a trad rack, 10 bolts, hammer, wrench , wire brush etc.. 

Ry Cwrote:

When I was a more enthusiastic climber, I used to launch my body off gear all the time — I’ve fallen on every size cam down to 0.1 and the smallest nuts. Sparse placements. Absolute wingers on tiny pro. My belayers feared belaying me. Been surprised how many pieces have held despite being kinda terrible/desperate placements and because of that, I learned to trust my gear. I’ve never had a piece rip on a fall.

Now though, I am significantly less bold because I realized I can actually get hurt (and did after a wicked fall). Nothing like mortality slapping you in the face to make you realize “climbing is inherently dangerous”. I still trust gear, but no more run-outs and bold spacing when I’m climbing around my limit. 

I think I also trusted falling on tiny pro because I am a smaller climber. At 105lbs, me taking a phat whip on a 0.2 is going to exert significantly less force than a 210lb man barreling down from space. Chances of ripping gear are slimmer — probably why I haven’t ripped gear(?) f=ma

I totally respect this take. I'll also make a point to comment and say that I'm 165 lbs and have taken a whip from a full body length+ above a BD Z4 0.0 and it held, and I've taken even bigger falls on my lucky WC 0.2 and it's also always held. Same deal with black and blue totems. 

I say this because I want to emphasize that the gear we all use is STRONG, so long as it's placed well. Obviously it's not fail proof, but I'm commenting to reduce any gear fear generated by somebody reading your comment and thinking that unless they weigh very little, their gear isn't going to hold their falls. 

Slim Pickenswrote:

Someone back on page 1 mentioned aid climbing. Aiding has taught me a lot about placement quality. A LOT. I’ve taken some pretty big falls on gear in both aid and trad contexts and have been caught by some pretty small pieces.

I try to maintain situational awareness about things that are objectively hazardous—ledges, sharp aretes, falls that are going to be big swingers—and climb with commensurate caution in the presence of those hazards. But that’s as true for bolts as it is for gear. Clean falls, I’ll take em all day.

Gear is good. 

It seems many have never taken the time to learn how to aid. I've always been into freeclimbing but have taken the time to learn basic aid climbing,  mainly because sometimes you get in over your head and there is no easy way out besides aiding on semi suspect gear. It really is enlightening to spend some time focusing on what the gear can and cannot do,  even if it is just bodyweight.

It's also funny to see folks commenting about happily whipping at IC when that type of rock lends itself to cams sliding a ways before catching. If a blind whip should ever be secure it would be granite or something similar.

Gear can be great.

I like roofs and steep walls because a) they're just insanely fun to me for some reason and b) the falls are generally clean.  Before launching into the crux of a climb at my limit,  a good placement (maybe a backup too) is verified then the fear of falling subsides and I just go for it.  In those cases, a fall occurs probably half the time.  I also have the utmost trust in my belayer.  Since we've been married for 25 years, she has a vested interest in keeping me out of harms way.

Just because micro cams held you a bunch of times does not mean that they will always hold you. If you treat micro cams like bolts sooner or later they will rip. You can fall on a bolt 20 times and it's gonna hold every time. Try the same thing with a 00 tcu and chances are pretty good it's gonna rip. 

M Mwrote:

IIt's also funny to see folks commenting about happily whipping at IC when that type of rock lends itself to cams sliding a ways before catching. 

I pretty much only climb in IC and fall all the time when climbing at my limit. I’ve never seen a piece move and this is the first time I have heard this. Curious where/when you have seen this? Every piece I have fallen on has been exactly where I placed it and exactly how I placed it.

The only piece I have ripped was in granite. A blindly placed finger sized cam that ripped with body weight. Serves me right.

BD did a study years ago: 30% of perfectly placed cams will fail. So, never let just one cam be between you and the hospital. I avoid falling like the plague. But when climbing at my limit I often have a conversation in my head: 

"My gear is good, it's backed up, I'm probly' going to fall, but I have to at least try the move."

My most recent falls were in this category at the Creek. I knew my gear was good, I went for it and found myself air born. Both times I felt much better, went up and got the move second try. 

I mean, we carry all this gear around, might as well put it to work now and then. I do love trad more than sport because with trad, I can often place a high piece to get a top rope through the hardest move. 

Mark Websterwrote:

BD did a study years ago: 30% of perfectly placed cams will fail. So, never let just one cam be between you and the hospital. I avoid falling like the plague. But when climbing at my limit I often have a conversation in my head: 

"My gear is good, it's backed up, I'm probly' going to fall, but I have to at least try the move."

My most recent falls were in this category at the Creek. I knew my gear was good, I went for it and found myself air born. Both times I felt much better, went up and got the move second try. 

I mean, we carry all this gear around, might as well put it to work now and then. I do love trad more than sport because with trad, I can often place a high piece to get a top rope through the hardest move. 

What study is this and in what context? That seems an absurdly high failure rate. Or do you just mean pull at lower than its rated strength? A 12 kN piece ripping at 11 kN or at 2 kN has very different implications for trusting gear. 

F r i t zwrote:

Meanwhile, the "I guess I may as well take an extra number ___ just in case" crowd is over here like ...

"It's okay - I've brought triples."

"Err; it's a finger crack..." 

M Mwrote:

It's also funny to see folks commenting about happily whipping at IC when that type of rock lends itself to cams sliding a ways before catching. If a blind whip should ever be secure it would be granite or something similar.

Gear can be great.

Like Cory, I have spent a lot of time looking at Wingate from mid-air, and have never had a well-placed piece do this. I've blown pieces in different sandstones and granite because I blindly placed them and they ended up being undercammed or in marginal stone.

But having a piece skate down the crack before arresting a fall? That's a new one for me. If anywhere, I would expect to see that on the softest of the sandstones like Sedona, Garden of the Gods or anywhere that has a Chinle band. If you have a story, I'm all ears.

Cory Nwrote:

I pretty much only climb in IC and fall all the time when climbing at my limit. I’ve never seen a piece move and this is the first time I have heard this. Curious where/when you have seen this? Every piece I have fallen on has been exactly where I placed it and exactly how I placed it.

The only piece I have ripped was in granite. A blindly placed finger sized cam that ripped with body weight. Serves me right.

I have spent 100s of days there myself and can say for sure that a good fall there makes them move. Maybe the layers of softness have been scrubbed off now that it's as crowded as a climbing gym? My days there were 20 years ago when you would often not see anyone else there on a weekday. 

Some dynamic loading: 

Mark Websterwrote:

BD did a study years ago: 30% of perfectly placed cams will fail. So, never let just one cam be between you and the hospital. I avoid falling like the plague. But when climbing at my limit I often have a conversation in my head: 

Without a proper link to this, I'm calling BS. 

M Mwrote:

I have spent 100s of days there myself and can say for sure that a good fall there makes them move. Maybe the layers of softness have been scrubbed off now that it's as crowded as a climbing gym? My days there were 20 years ago when you would often not see anyone else there on a weekday. 

Sand can definitely have that effect? Maybe things were dirtier? As for “softness scrubbed off” I wouldn’t say that’s the case on the majority of routes, sure there are a list of routes in the guidebook that get many ascents every season, but the majority of routes are as crispy as the day they were first climbed. Out of thousands of cracks only a few are abused by the masses.

I’ll remember this thread and if it ever happens I’ll circle back here and let you know!