Avalanche safety gear

Curious what folks are bringing out for avy gear, for ice climbing specifically. I definitely make a trade off for far lighter weight at the expense of safety performance compared to what I would bring out ski touring. 

These seem to be the lightest options out that might have somewhat of a chance of actually digging someone out: 

https://us.arva-equipment.com/shovels/611-race-shovel.html

https://us.arva-equipment.com/probes/581-race-240-probe.html 

Strongly suggest actually trying to move snow with a race shovel to see what they are really capable of. I don't trust them in situations of need. I think UIAA 156 is a minimum requirement personally unless you're just trying to check the box for skimo races. I haven't used the BD Transfer LT, but hear that it actually works as a rescue shovel, but would pay those 100g everyday for the increased utility. I just deal with my alugator lite if it's beacon time when cilmbing.

I agree the need for 300cm+ probes in non-ski touring situation are probably lower, but again it depends on the terrain and snowpack.

on a low hazard day ill take a camp shovel, anything else a real shovel or pick something less exposed to hazard 

https://skimo.co/camp-crest-shovel

Last winter I bought a Mammut Alugator Ultra after using many heavier shovels for most of my heavy lifting.  The Alugator Ultra is impressively light but equally impressively flexible.  It's now part of my lift-accessed pack/kit when I need some emergency gear but expect that ski patrol will be able to support fairly quickly.  I'll continue to carry a heavier shovel in more austere conditions when I might need to chop through more dense snow.

With avy gear you kinda either carry it or you don't. There isn't a lot of weight savings to be had once you decide to carry it.

I'm sometimes tempted to carry only the beacon under the thought that you can maybe somewhat dig someone out with ice tools and a trekking pole (50% of the safety benefit for 20% of the weight?) but OTOH I've also heard a horror story of when someone died buried at the base of a climb where everyone had beacons but the shovel+probes were buried along with the victim, so the 6 other people couldn't dig out the buried person in time.

I did upgrade from Dozer 1T (545g) to Bd transfer LT (405g). This actually makes me resent the avy gear a lot less since the BD takes up a lot less pack space.

Make sure to take the beacon out of its harness (harness weighs 120g on mine). Putting the beacon in a chest pocket (or bra-cket for the ladies) is approximately the same position. the problem of "where do you put your phone so that it doesn't interfere with the beacon?" still persists regardless of whether you carry the beacon chest harness.

Mindset: Usually there's some other random BS on the approach to an ice climb, that eats up a lot more time and energy than your pack weight. Also, ice approaches often are either pretty short, or if they're long then you're definitely in real-deal terrain where skimping on avy gear is not an option. I'm definitely a weight weenie in summer, but find it harder to care about gram savings in winter. 

Ellen Swrote:

With avy gear you kinda either carry it or you don't. There isn't a lot of weight savings to be had once you decide to carry it.

Exactly.  And, there's little point in carrying something that amounts to the equivalent of "mental pro."

I'm sometimes tempted to carry only the beacon under the thought that you can maybe somewhat dig someone out with ice tools and a trekking pole (50% of the safety benefit for 20% of the weight?) but OTOH I've also heard a horror story of when someone died buried at the base of a climb where everyone had beacons but the shovel+probes were buried along with the victim, so the 6 other people couldn't dig out the buried person in time.

I'm pretty sure you're referring to the Massey's incident (although maybe not - in that case it was a party of 6, including 2 victims, one of whom survived).  I'm sort of a degree removed from a couple of the people involved in that one; it was very sad and sobering.  Most concerning is that it highlights a problem without any easy solution: Regardless of the degree of avalanche exposure for your route on the day, any exposure is likely to be concentrated at the climb itself (maybe on the approach too, but it would be rare to have approach exposure and nothing at the climb.  And yet, once we arrive at the crag (not applicable to multipitch, typically), we habitually set our packs aside and settle in for the day as though the danger is turned off until we head back to the car.  It has been argued (though not undisputed) that the group at Massey's did pretty much everything right, except for tucking their packs away in an ice cave. So what to do? Sew a sleeve into a gaiter to hold your probe at all times (hey, maybe not a bad idea for those of us old folks who still wear gaiters!)? Wear a tiny backpack (summit pouch style) or other rigging solution and carry your shovel on your person from parking lot to parking lot? I suppose that might work, but I can't see the practice catching on. Personally, I lean toward getting a lot more realistic about the risks I choose to take on (the low probability/high consequence thing). More often than not, when snow slides, we don't fare much better than bugs on a windshield on the highway.

*EDITED* to add that my further reading suggests that the group at Massey's was wearing their packs while climbing, but the avalanche hit during a transition moment while packs were off.

Mindset: Usually there's some other random BS on the approach to an ice climb, that eats up a lot more time and energy than your pack weight. Also, ice approaches often are either pretty short, or if they're long then you're definitely in real-deal terrain where skimping on avy gear is not an option.

I Agree.

Stay safe this season, everyone!

Yeah that's the one, heartbreaking. I only heard second hand about that incident and didn't know the name of it. After hearing about it, I added "Hang the rescue gear from a tree or piece of gear out of the fall line" to one of many risk-mitigating strategies. 

If there is avalanche danger then I usually bring the normal gear. Beacon, lightweight shovel and probe. Also always carry an inreach. 

Jason4Toowrote:

...in more austere conditions when I might need to chop through more dense snow.

regardless of conditions, if there is a slide, it will 100% be more dense snow. "Race" shovels won't cut it.

Race shovels dont cut it in full burials, multiple burials, etc. 

I think the consensus here that they’re seemingly worthless is a bit off though. Anyone ever tried to dig a snow cave or chop a platform with an ice ax? I used a race shovel on a “green” day to dig out rappel anchors buried in snow, and was glad to have it. I do think they’re nice to have on big outings even when avy hazard is low as a just in case item. But if there is any moderate hazard or higher a full kit is the way to go.