How much should a campsite cost?

Chad Miller wrote:

Spend $40-80K on a camping rig just so you don't have to spend $45 a night, 20 nights a year.    

I kid.  I'm envious of the camping rigs!  Very nice!  

Except, who is only camping 20 nights a year? I don’t own a vansion, but I don’t get laughing at those who do. The generational problem isn’t kids buying expensive vans, it’s the previous generations letting agencies get away with charging $50 a night to sleep on the ground. If being “hard” costs $15k a year, even a sprinter  can pay for itself. Shame where shame belongs.

Now now there's no need for shaming. Think of it like portaledges. I'd guess the majority of ledge-buyers actual mileage on their spanky new ledges is somewhat, low. 10-nights? 20? Whatever, its natural to do the cost/night calc and then work to make that number 2x lower! 

Same for camping rigs. The ideal is to get the cost / night as low as you can! Let's go camping!!! Enough of those old fashioned day trips.

Frank Stein wrote:

No driving to crag from camp. Top: undeveloped/free.  Bottom: developed/not free.

Also, I am certain that I am older and creakier than you are. 

These are both great.  However, one only needs a vehicle to get them to the free areas right. Not everyone needs a truck topper rig or a full on sprinter van. All you need is a decent clearance vehicle and a tent and you can access the “free” camping.  

Sleep on the ground with an old wool blankie, Puritan! Is all good. Over the course of life we start simple, get complex then eventually go back to simple again.

Chad Miller wrote:

Spend $40-80K on a camping rig just so you don't have to spend $45 a night, 20 nights a year.   

The correct comparison isn't between the rig and camping - it's between the rig and hotels.

Walt Peters wrote:

These are both great.  However, one only needs a vehicle to get them to the free areas right. Not everyone needs a truck topper rig or a full on sprinter van. All you need is a decent clearance vehicle and a tent and you can access the “free” camping.  

This is very true. In my twenties I went to Mexico for over a month in a ‘79 Tercell, sleeping on the ground. In my forties, we did three months in Europe with a Ford Focus and a two-person tent. But now, we are old and soft, and a bed and a heater are really nice.

Anyway, I estimate that we spent 400 to 500 nights in that truck over the last six years. A cheap motel runs about $100 per night these days, so $40K minimum over that period. Conservatively, I saved $12K by staying in my truck, with the added bonus of not commuting to the crag each day.  

Walt Peters wrote:

These are both great.  However, one only needs a vehicle to get them to the free areas right. Not everyone needs a truck topper rig or a full on sprinter van. All you need is a decent clearance vehicle and a tent and you can access the “free” camping.  

Or just a midsized SUV.

Sep M wrote:

Except, who is only camping 20 nights a year? I don’t own a vansion, but I don’t get laughing at those who do. The generational problem isn’t kids buying expensive vans, it’s the previous generations letting agencies get away with charging $50 a night to sleep on the ground. If being “hard” costs $15k a year, even a sprinter  can pay for itself. Shame where shame belongs.

20 nights a year seems pretty average for the people who actually camp. Thats less than 2 days a month…

Frank Stein wrote:

Without a doubt and with pleasure. (Bottom pic is a rental, and total cost for top pic was $28K, so cheaper than the spousal vehicle)

You purchased the truck, topper,  and the roof tent for $28k?!  That's one heck of a deal!  Nice find! 

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

20 nights a year seems pretty average for the people who actually camp. Thats less than 2 days a month…

I car camp and backpack around 26 nights a year. For me that's half my free weekends.      

Chad Miller wrote:

I car camp and backpack around 26 nights a year. For me that's half my free weekends.      

Some years I’m way more than 20, some years I’m close or less…on average I am certainly much more than 20 nights a year since I started climbing though, the majority of those years were in a tent or back of Subaru. Only last 5 have I upgraded to a truck bed. 

Chad Miller wrote:

You purchased the truck, topper,  and the roof tent for $28k?!  That's one heck of a deal!  Nice find! 

$18K for the truck, used. First year model Project M from Four Wheel, bought new for $9.9K, with a $800.00 install. They now sell for close to $12K. 

Sep M wrote:

Except, who is only camping 20 nights a year? I don’t own a vansion, but I don’t get laughing at those who do. The generational problem isn’t kids buying expensive vans, it’s the previous generations letting agencies get away with charging $50 a night to sleep on the ground. If being “hard” costs $15k a year, even a sprinter  can pay for itself. Shame where shame belongs.

What kind of Sprinter van is that? Average "Vansion" I see seems to run close to 100K or more. Cost of ownership and running a 100K vehicle is MUCH more than $15K per year.

Also, who spends 300 nights a year camping? Pretty sure that's just called being homeless. I think most people would be thrilled if they spent 20-30 nights a year camping. 

Andrew Rice wrote:

What kind of Sprinter van is that? Average "Vansion" I see seems to run close to 100K or more. Cost of ownership and running a 100K vehicle is MUCH more than $15K per year.

Also, who spends 300 nights a year camping? Pretty sure that's just called being homeless. I think most people would be thrilled if they spent 20-30 nights a year camping. 

Cost of vehicle ownership is not upwards of $15K per year. You have insurance, registration and basic maintenance. It comes out well under $4K (about $2.5K in my case). The other factor is that you need a vehicle to get to the crag anyway, regardless of whether you can camp in it or not.
I do need to clarify that my camper is not a daily driver. For that I have a crappy 35 year-old hatchback that costs me less than $500/year to insure and register. 

Frank Stein wrote:

Cost of vehicle ownership is not upwards of $15K per year. You have insurance, registration and basic maintenance. It comes out well under $4K (about $2.5K in my case). The other factor is that you need a vehicle to get to the crag anyway, regardless of whether you can camp in it or not.
I do need to clarify that my camper is not a daily driver. For that I have a crappy 35 year-old hatchback that costs me less than $500/year to insure and register. 

Uh, Frank. Note that I asked what kind of SPRINTER van you can have for 15k a year. The previous poster said that $50 campsite fees made even Sprinter ownership seem affordable... He/she also suggested that most people were camping 300 nights a year. If only. 

I, too, own a great camping rig. Mine is an old Toyota Sequoia with a built in rear platform as well as a killer rooftop tent. My cost per year for that is insurance and gas/maint. 

Don't forget to include all the extra gas vansions burn. Can afford hotels with the difference sometimes. 

Also calculate your carbon footprint shame.

Recreation.gov is NOT a government organization, its a private company established thru a large government contractor that can do whatever it feels like with the processes and dollars collected. Hopefully I'll never stay at any concessions they have under their control.  Yes paying for the use of OUR publicly funded lands, (your tax dollars) from a campsite to parking in paved lots YOU paid for.  As the Sheeple keep conforming, the fees will just keep going up.....

Jim Amidon wrote:

Recreation.gov is NOT a government organization, its a private company established thru a large government contractor that can do whatever it feels like with the processes and dollars collected. Hopefully I'll never stay at any concessions they have under their control.  Yes paying for the use of OUR publicly funded lands, (your tax dollars) from a campsite to parking in paved lots YOU paid for.  As the Sheeple keep conforming, the fees will just keep going up.....

Kind of.  It's a company that the federal government has contracted with to handle the bookings.  Roughly 85% of the costs go back to to the park that you're staying in.  The remainder go to other parks and the management company.  

Roughly .05% of your taxes go to managing public lands and campsites.  The money has to come from somewhere.  With the ever increasing usage the parks  need more money.  That can come from fees or increased taxes.  That or you can get the government to move some money around.  

FYI:  when you use the term "Sheeple" you  sound like someone who yells at clouds and thinks he's accomplishing something.  

Chad Miller wrote:

FYI:  when you use the term "Sheeple" you  sound like someone who yells at clouds and thinks he's accomplishing something.  

Screaming helps, Chad 

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

Screaming helps, Chad 

I find it’s best just to shake your fist at ‘em.