What makes the TC Pro so dominant?

Scott Dwrote:

Calling BS on this. There's nothing aggressive about TC Pros. You can literally hike in them. If you lay a brand new pair on a flat surface the toe is like 1/2 a centimeter lower than everything else, that's about as aggressive as a basset hound that got into the edibles stash. For all intent and purposes, after breaking them in, TC Pros are flat shoes. 

Nobody will agree with me on this but aggressive refers to heel tension and downturn refers to what you’re describing. Everybody uses them interchangeably but they aren’t. Maybe this belongs in the hot take thread, but I will die on this hill.

This is the way

Bryanwrote:

Nobody will agree with me on this but aggressive refers to heel tension and downturn refers to what you’re describing. Everybody uses them interchangeably but they aren’t. Maybe this belongs in the hot take thread, but I will die on this hill.

Well, I reckon that'll be a lonely hill. Aggressiveness refers to a combination of factors. Asymmetry, downturn, stiffness (how much and where) and the overall tension system (toes, arches, sides, top, and heel) all play their part. The point is to funnel power to the big toe. Heel tension can't do that alone.

Hard Sendwrote:

Did you try the scarpa vapors? Gym version of the tcpros. Don’t get the lace version of the vapors the front rand is even softer less durable than the tcPro 

Hey, Hard Send… I just checked my gym bag and had a laugh. The gym shoes I bought awhile back are in fact velcro Scarpa Vapors! I had forgotten what they were. The times I have worn them in the gym on anything requiring smearing or small edging holds I find myself slipping a lot more than with my TCs, thus my continued use (abuse?!) of the TCs indoors. I’m thinking that maybe if I resoled the Vapors with 5mm Edge rubber (same as on my TCs currently) that might make me like them better. The Vapor original rubber just doesn’t seem as supportive or as sticky (I weigh around 185 pounds or so).

Most people I know buy shoes they can actually try on. That means either the small selection of shoes you can try on at the gym or REI. Our gym has a pretty poor selection of sizes, and TC Pros are probably tied with finales with amount in stock at REI. And they're very comfy. So I see a lot of people with them. I really liked the pair I had but they're way overkill for most people, including me. 

I am an  "old guy" (64), and really like these shoes for my aging feet......they are comfy to wear all day on a tall crag, they edge well for me (with my weaker toe strength), and smear relatively well.

I wear the New Version now, still have some useable older ones, but I have grown fond of the New Version. 

......when I got a pair of mine resoled, I did notice a slight less edging quality, maybe from slightly softer material (even though it was X-Edge rubber), or that they ground the rand around the toe area a little.....YMMV

but the tcpro pointy toe box seems so unnatural to the shape of a human foot

anyone remember what is the name of that company that makes a similar shoe that are handmade in mexico? 

John Rwrote:

I am an  "old guy" (64), and really like these shoes for my aging feet......they are comfy to wear all day on a tall crag, they edge well for me (with my weaker toe strength), and smear relatively well.

I wear the New Version now, still have some useable older ones, but I have grown fond of the New Version. 

......when I got a pair of mine resoled, I did notice a slight less edging quality, maybe from slightly softer material (even though it was X-Edge rubber), or that they ground the rand around the toe area a little.....YMMV

Hey, John. I’m an older guy, too (66) and like the support that the TC Pro gives me on edges. I weigh around 185 pounds and have mine resoled with 5mm vice 4mm Edge rubber. Maybe thicker rubber would restore the feel you like??? Just an idea. 

They are stiff. They are flat, not aggressive. They are designed without a large toe bump so you don't have to jam your feet in like crazy, so they are more comfortable anyways. Ankle protection for cracks. You can wear with socks and toes barely flat and do fabulous on easy to moderate trad, half to full size tighter, socks still, and edge better, or tighter still and edge amazing at the cost of comfort. I probably still have like 4+ pairs from 41 to 43.

Miura Lace is stiff and flat, but you have to jam the shit out of your toes to fit into it properly. That doesn't make for a lot of comfort for a long day. No ankle pro. Probably edges better and for very face centric harder trad climbs, probably a better choice... Not a better choice for offwidth, all day easy multipitch.

What do most of us love to climb? Easy to moderate long trad multipitch with a variety of features: face, crack, maybe a move of heel-toe or two. What does the TC Pro excel at? That.

In a world of shoes made for sport and bouldering, very few are actually made fully for ALL the trad situations: face, crack, offwidth, multipitch. If they were, they would be high top, stiff, relatively flat. There are some options now that fit that, but in the time of the first TC pro, there wasn't much options like that. The TC Pro is pretty damn close to a quiver of one so far as trad climbing is concerned. In the last several years we have gotten more options that look similar to the TC Pro, but they all differ. Maybe more aggressive so better edging at the cost of long day comfort, maybe softer rubber so worse at edging and offwidth but better long day comfort, etc... Scarpa Maestro, Scarpa Generator, 5.10/Adidas Grandstone, Evolv General, Tulson Toft California, etc...

I'm cheap and luckily Sportivas and TCs specifically don't fit me well. Never found a mid-top that has. Luckily, lots of shoes can handle moderate trad.
Moccs are comfy and great at smearing and thinner cracks. If I need to edge or jam mid+ cracks, I have a pretty fresh pair of Techno X still. Trying out some BD Aspects (non-pro/mid) as a Techno replacement - they seem pretty good. Stiff, supportive, well-made and jam great.
If I can find a deal on Aspect Pros, maybe I'll see how those do.

We do sometimes feel out of place when 80% of the traddies around us are sporting TC bros. Dare to be different

  :-D 

Shoes don’t care how you protect a climb. A shoe may be great at handcracks or offwidths or slabs but it is not great at Trad or Sport. And please please please stop saying you climbed “on trad” when you climb on gear. Also, the TC may be great at all the things desert rock said, but so is the katana lace if you size it right. The thing that drives me nuts about the TC is that I don’t need or want a high top because I so rarely climb offwidth. If you need a high top for hand cracks you are doing it wrong. 

Same thing that makes the GriGri the dominant device:  big marketing budget.

Desert Rock Sportswrote:

They are stiff. They are flat, not aggressive. They are designed without a large toe bump so you don't have to jam your feet in like crazy, so they are more comfortable anyways. Ankle protection for cracks. You can wear with socks and toes barely flat and do fabulous on easy to moderate trad, half to full size tighter, socks still, and edge better, or tighter still and edge amazing at the cost of comfort. I probably still have like 4+ pairs from 41 to 43.

Miura Lace is stiff and flat, but you have to jam the shit out of your toes to fit into it properly. That doesn't make for a lot of comfort for a long day. No ankle pro. Probably edges better and for very face centric harder trad climbs, probably a better choice... Not a better choice for offwidth, all day easy multipitch.

What do most of us love to climb? Easy to moderate long trad multipitch with a variety of features: face, crack, maybe a move of heel-toe or two. What does the TC Pro excel at? That.

In a world of shoes made for sport and bouldering, very few are actually made fully for ALL the trad situations: face, crack, offwidth, multipitch. If they were, they would be high top, stiff, relatively flat. There are some options now that fit that, but in the time of the first TC pro, there wasn't much options like that. The TC Pro is pretty damn close to a quiver of one so far as trad climbing is concerned. In the last several years we have gotten more options that look similar to the TC Pro, but they all differ. Maybe more aggressive so better edging at the cost of long day comfort, maybe softer rubber so worse at edging and offwidth but better long day comfort, etc... Scarpa Maestro, Scarpa Generator, 5.10/Adidas Grandstone, Evolv General, Tulson Toft California, etc...

 - This ^^^^^        

 ......And I also have  pairs, Some size 43, some 43.5, depending on how difficult the climb is, and/or how long I will be out climbing long routes without taking my shoes off......

Jake Joneswrote:

Same thing that makes the GriGri the dominant device:  big marketing budget.

Idk, i have tried a lot of other belay devices and the gri gri keep making its way back onto my harness.

John Clarkwrote:

Idk, i have tried a lot of other belay devices and the gri gri keep making its way back onto my harness.

Same story with tc pro.  

Jake Joneswrote:

Same thing that makes the GriGri the dominant device:  big marketing budget.

Ain’t nobody here ever seen a gri gri commercial. I’ve never seen a TC pro ad either. I’m sure both exist but the marketing budget is completely unnecessary, it’s all word of mouth.

People primarily use both because they just work. 

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsionwrote:

Ain’t nobody here ever seen a gri gri commercial. I’ve never seen a TC pro ad either. I’m sure both exist but the marketing budget is completely unnecessary, it’s all word of mouth.

People primarily use both because they just work. 

Lol, you not on social media?