New and experienced climbers over 50 #30

Nick, we are here midweek in September. No one else on the most popular sectors on Mt. Cesaire--one of the main cliffs at Val David itself, so, no, not busy at all. I expect that it will be very different on the weekend. We'll see tomorrow if the good weather lasts until then---though, unfortunately, that is not the current forecast. Even if Val David is busy--though so extensive should be easy to find uncrowded sections, there are numerous other crags in the vicinity ( within 1/2 hr./45 min. drive) so plenty of places that you will likely have to yourselves ( though need multiple guidebooks to find them all!!!). The top 2 pictures are of one such area, basically roadside, pretty 1/2 hour drive, empty---though mostly hard ( and stiffly-graded) routes. After 3 days of climbing, today will be a touristing/hiking day for me.

As far as distance from Grandes Jardins, I'm guessing about 100 miles as the crow flies, maybe somewhat more, though, of course, Quebec roads don't go anything close to 'crow straight'!!!! Val David is about an hour directly north of Montreal just off the main highway towards Mt. Tremblant. Should be mostly highways from your place--though, as we discovered, Montreal traffic can be a nightmare--and there really is no way to avoid going through the city coming from the south.

Alan.  Wow!  Trees!  Wonderful pictures!  

Wendy—thanks for your thoughts on the Tobin book. I ordered it.  

Wandering around Joshua Tree so much and Now understanding a little more about Climbing I  am constantly astonished looking at routes here.  Not a day goes by when I am not shaking my head and asking “how?”  I would not believe it if I wasn’t seeing it with my own eyes.  

This picture showed up on my phone this morning. I believe it may be the wall containing.Grand Canyon Donkey Trail, one of the last remaining Houser routes that I have not climbed, but may never climb because I believe there are no bolts at the top.  And per the new wilderness route rules may require finagling to to get a permit.

It’s been a slow process understanding the Social order of the 60s and 70s.  It appears Dave Houser had a limited, but faithful set of climbing partners based upon the names that show up on every FA. But I don’t see that Tobin climbed with Dave.  John Long‘s name shows up with Rick Accomazzo, etc. It’s just that wandering around here so many years later it’s kind of fun to try to put the pieces together of how this place came to be.

I guess I just need to leave this here for a bit of moral support. Tony is on his way to see a hip surgeon this morning. After four very intensive back surgeries, he is completely out of pain in that area, and he was so happy about that, except for a slow and persistent Pain growing in both hips. So he went back to his back surgeon who said “well you have severe osteoarthritis in both hips. if you can’t accept the pain, you’re going to need two separate hip replacement surgeries.“

He’s more and more quiet lately and I know he’s frustrated, but doesn’t want to say so. I didn’t know him when he was bulletproof and had his swag. But I know he remembers it. He’s never been able to present himself to me in that way.

I don’t know how many major surgeries person can take. He’s had four in the last five years. In his view, he would rather risk his life for the chance of walking normally again and living without pain.

And here I am with my grounding sheets and homeopathics. I don’t know how we ever got together, but I may have to dig deep to support him through whatever he decides to do. And of course, there’s always the fear that this surgery may be one too many.   

Lori, multiple surgeries are rough -- 2 in the course of 3 years was a lot for me. But I think hip replacement is the 'easiest' of the replacements. My recovery went very smoothly -- a lot of walking, first with a walker, then with a cane, and fairly soon unassisted. Both my hip and back surgeries have been major improvements in the quality of my life. 

Another endorsement here for Rick's new book.

Brought back many fine memories of being a part of the early 70s SoCal climbing scene. 

Never tied in with Tobin, Ricky, Largo, etc.,

My climbing mentor Jim Wilson did quite a few routes with them including Valhalla and other FA's with the early Stonemaster crew. I was fortunate to reconnect with Jim 35  years later at the Bidwell Memorial in the Valley.

The tribe of thrillseeking teens was so much smaller BITD.

Li Hu wrote:

Going back to climbing, it’s probably time to drop one of my climbing partners. Figuratively, of course.

Got dropped on a top rope to the ground from 8 feet flat on my back. Was told that “if you want me to pull you up the climb” rather than a simple “oops sorry”. Same session, was short toped, told I was at fault for his back clip… All in all, wasn’t a fun experience. So, going to climb with my other partners earlier in the day.

Totally make him history.  And if he doesn't reform his ways, don't be shy about telling other partners of this guy your experience.  There's no room in climbing for incompetent belayers who make excuses for their behavior.  Hopefully he gets the message before he kills someone.

GO

Lori, best to you & Tony.

Lori Milas wrote:

Alan.  Wow!  Trees!  Wonderful pictures!  

Wendy—thanks for your thoughts on the Tobin book. I ordered it.  

Wandering around Joshua Tree so much and Now understanding a little more about Climbing I  am constantly astonished looking at routes here.  Not a day goes by when I am not shaking my head and asking “how?”  I would not believe it if I wasn’t seeing it with my own eyes.  

This picture showed up on my phone this morning. I believe it may be the wall containing.Grand Canyon Donkey Trail, one of the last remaining Houser routes that I have not climbed, but may never climb because I believe there are no bolts at the top.  And per the new wilderness route rules may require finagling to to get a permit.

It’s been a slow process understanding the Social order of the 60s and 70s.  It appears Dave Houser had a limited, but faithful set of climbing partners based upon the names that show up on every FA. But I don’t see that Tobin climbed with Dave.  John Long‘s name shows up with Rick Accomazzo, etc. It’s just that wandering around here so many years later it’s kind of fun to try to put the pieces together of how this place came to be.

Lori, while I should leave it to those on here who were active members of the Southern California climbing community BITD to respond, when you wonder why certain people apparently only climbed with a limited group of partners, it is important to understand that during the 60s, 70s, even 80s, climbing was definitely NOT considered to be a 'socially acceptable' activity. So, across the country, not just in CA, various 'outcasts' who had caught the 'climbing bug', would find each other---often from the same community, frequently while in high school---at some boulders or chossy local outcrop, and slowly 'gel' into a small group and start climbing together. Often, at least for a few years, these groups would keep to themselves and become quite insular. While rarely admitted in those days ( because climbing was supposed to be 'non-competitive'), as the members of individual groups improved in ability, rivalries would develop between various groups, especially when they began putting up new routes or repeating the hardest existing ones. Over time ( with maturity?) some folks would disappear from the scene and the 'survivors' of the different groups would increasingly start to 'mingle'. The Stonemasters---the subjects of Rick's new book, are the best known of the California groups from that era, but they were definitely not the only ones who were active in the region.

Alan Rubin wrote:

Lori, while I should leave it to those on here who were active members of the Southern California climbing community BITD to respond, when you wonder why certain people apparently only climbed with a limited group of partners, it is important to understand that during the 60s, 70s, even 80s, climbing was definitely NOT considered to be a 'socially acceptable' activity. So, across the country, not just in CA, various 'outcasts' who had caught the 'climbing bug', would find each other---often from the same community, frequently while in high school---at some boulders or chossy local outcrop, and slowly 'gel' into a small group and start climbing together. Often, at least for a few years, these groups would keep to themselves and become quite insular. While rarely admitted in those days ( because climbing was supposed to be 'non-competitive'), as the members of individual groups improved in ability, rivalries would develop between various groups, especially when they began putting up new routes or repeating the hardest existing ones. Over time ( with maturity?) some folks would disappear from the scene and the 'survivors' of the different groups would increasingly start to 'mingle'. The Stonemasters---the subjects of Rick's new book, are the best known of the California groups from that era, but they were definitely not the only ones who were active in the region.

Thanks for educating Al, it goes the same for modern day climbers as well. Not all of the best climbers are on the various social media sites and in the magazines,  some are content just living and climbing without any desire to be known, sponsored, or involved with comps.

And Todd,  those first clips must have been ridiculously close and the route poorly set for you to have to do that! WTF

Alan Rubin wrote:

Lori, while I should leave it to those on here who were active members of the Southern California climbing community BITD to respond, when you wonder why certain people apparently only climbed with a limited group of partners, it is important to understand that during the 60s, 70s, even 80s, climbing was definitely NOT considered to be a 'socially acceptable' activity. So, across the country, not just in CA, various 'outcasts' who had caught the 'climbing bug', would find each other---often from the same community, frequently while in high school---at some boulders or chossy local outcrop, and slowly 'gel' into a small group and start climbing together. Often, at least for a few years, these groups would keep to themselves and become quite insular. While rarely admitted in those days ( because climbing was supposed to be 'non-competitive'), as the members of individual groups improved in ability, rivalries would develop between various groups, especially when they began putting up new routes or repeating the hardest existing ones. Over time ( with maturity?) some folks would disappear from the scene and the 'survivors' of the different groups would increasingly start to 'mingle'. The Stonemasters---the subjects of Rick's new book, are the best known of the California groups from that era, but they were definitely not the only ones who were active in the region.

Thanks for this, Alan!  J Tree is a big place... probably no bigger than the Gunks or other well known climbing areas.  But it is big, spread out, and endless.  I'm trying to at least acquaint myself with the major areas, and then hone in on one area at a time.  So, I can almost map out the areas certain people, like Dave Houser, Jan, etc explored... where they hung out, and then when they moved on.  But these overnights at J Tree Intersection Rock... the main parking lot... there were various climber groups who would camp there, I guess, but not necessarily mingle?  There must have been a pecking order.  

It blows my mind to think that, had I shown up at just the right time, John Bachar could have been my guide/coach for a season.  I can only imagine how that would have gone.     He would either have been an earnest and attentive mentor... or he would have been out of his mind with boredom and probably dangled me from a 5.13 for the distraction.  Either way, it would have been memorable.

Looks like Tony is going to have those two surgeries, supposedly on out patient basis?  Thank you Wendy, for putting my mind at ease.  Tony is ecstatic. 

I am still very picky about partners and  would most often rather solo than climb with just anyone. 

Todd Berlier wrote:

I have a belaying story!

At a youth comp last spring I volunteered to belau female youth b girls on one of the harder routes. I chose this route because the 3rd clip looked hard and I wanted to be the one belaying my daughter. It was super stressful; 3 girls would have decked if I hadn't gotten in an armload of slack while running backwards. 

Also at the comp was Beth Rodden and Randy Puro supporting their kid. They were sitting on the mats about 15 feet away. I couldn't pass the opportunity up so I walked up and said, "I just wanted to say thanks for all both of you have contributed to the climbing world." They said thanks and Ms Rodden also said, "Thanks for what you're doing. A few kids would have decked without you!" I blushed.

This is a very advanced belay technique you really only learn as a sport climber. You have to run back, then “soft catch” them. Fast reactions and experience! Good job!

Todd Berlier wrote:

I don't like to talk shit about my own gym but that's a perfect summary. TBF the competitors that had the worst falls were trying to clip from one hold lower than planned. Also the gym does not have tall walls so to separate out the competitors they felt they had to make it hard as soon as they left the ground.

Setters generally make youth competitive routes a bit easier and safer near the ground. The “normal” routes can be pretty harrowing, and we’ve got 40 foot walls.

From the book Desert Solitaire.  I can relate.  

—-

I just wanted to mention that I am really appreciative of Pilates right now. I have only just begun on what could be a long journey. At this point it’s entirely done from laying position.  My instructor totally focuses on how I stand, sit, move, and where the weaknesses and imbalances are. She will adjust a movement by a half an inch. If it causes any pain, we stop. Everything so far is perfectly applicable to movement on rock – – in fact, several of the exercises we did are essentially a mantle. I showed her a picture of the move that wanked my knee out earlier this year and we discussed how I could have changed things. It turns out that the “turn out“ position required on slab should be generated from the inner thighs and the glutes , just like first and second positions in ballet. But if you just splay the feet without using glutes and inner thighs, you twist the knees and there they go.  

So training for me is going to be less about pumping iron and reps and more about working on controlled, strong movement.  

Lori Milas wrote:

From the book Desert Solitaire.  I can relate.  

Riding wild pigs? My guess is he’s never actually been close to one.  

Pilates is really good for you. That’s also the approach I’ve taken. Core strength! Finger strength!

Charlie Gray and myself shared a campfire and jug of red wine with Ed Abby up a box canyon in 86..  Ed was of course truck camping as we were but I have no doubt he had put his time in sleeping in the dirt. 

9+ 30m  we sent. naturally Isa Got 

it first try.

BTW Encounters with the Archdruid is a must read. Gives a great perspective on development/conservation/preservation/environmentalism.

Yes! Highly recommended for the reason stated.

I read all of Abbey’s books BITD (70s/80s). After reading Monkey Wrench Gang, as teenagers, we started tearing down small bill boards and real estate signs out in the desert north of Phoenix (inspired, naturally, by those colorful characters George Hayduke, Bonnie Abbzug, Doc Sarvis, and Seldom Seen Smith). It didn’t do much to stop the suburban growth (“Phoenix… just another suburb of L.A.”… Was that an Abbeyism?)

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

I got to climb again with George Bracksieck last week at a local LA crag.    Anytime George is in town and I can make it work we get out and climb.   George is still going strong and is an inspiration, I think he told me he is 76?

We did a long 6 pitch route, started early to beat the heat and had a great day.  

George avoids this thread, he should join in occasionally!  He is practically the bionic man with his titanium shoulders,  climbed with him a few times a while ago in AZ, great guy

Cool! We’ve nearly done 50 pages again. Lori, we’ve got to get you back in the gym for Pilates on the wall!