Hot Takes 2024

Jacob Mintzwrote:

Because -/+ is objectively terrible without at least an (even) in there. PG brought it from 4 discrete increments to 2. Previously 11a and 11c routes (very easy to tell that they're not the same) could be called 11-. I saw three climbs at Sunnyvale literally next to each other with the same grade and they were all wildly different difficulties.

In terms of hemming and hawing, at least in the gym it's part of the social aspect / small talk for me just like chatting about the beta or style of a route. "Yeah, that one move felt harder than 10b, but overall sustained at 10a, so I'd call it..."

I'm getting the impression you don't understand the scale.

11a/b = 11-, 11b/c = 11, 11c/d = 11+

Funny how it's always climbers from the bay complaining about California grades

Jacob Mintzwrote:

I saw three climbs at Sunnyvale literally next to each other with the same grade and they were all wildly different difficulties.

Just gonna throw this out there that this is true at any gym regardless of the grading system and is also true at many, many crags.

Also no even with the -/+ it should mean 11cs are lumped into 11+ (11b/c, 11c, 11c/d, 11d) while 11as are lumped into 11- (11a, 11a/b, 11b, 11b/c)

Edit: Jacob I definitely agree, I think -/even/+ is the best - my original point was moreso around that it just doesn't really matter that much - but it sounds like you and I are aboard the same ship

Tal Mwrote:

Just gonna throw this out there that this is true at any gym regardless of the grading system and is also true at many, many crags.

Also no even with the -/+ it should mean 11cs are lumped into 11+ (11b/c, 11c, 11c/d, 11d) while 11as are lumped into 11- (11a, 11a/b, 11b, 11b/c)

You could also devise a rating system where 10d gets lumped in with 11a/b and make the same argument. It's just a matter of how fine-grained you want the grades to be. I personally think people are consistent enough on assigning grades that it's worth being more fine-grained than +/-

No, I understand it pretty well. My problem is not with +/even/-, it's that Movement is just doing + or - grades, where there is no just "5.11" or just "5.10" rated climb in the gym. Therefore a soft 11a or hard 11b (or even a hard 10d or soft 11c) could all potentially be under an "11-" umbrella, which seems silly to me. I agree A-D ratings may be too nitpicky. And I can respect that not all climbs of the same grade are created equal. But my warm take is that the gym should at least have a solid number rating in there too (3 divisions per number, vs 4 or 2).

almostradwrote:

I'm getting the impression you don't understand the scale.

11a/b = 11-, 11b/c = 11, 11c/d = 11+

Funny how it's always climbers from the bay complaining about California grades

Too much good grass

And here I was not even realizing that it was gym grades we were stressin about

almostradwrote:

And here I was not even realizing that it was gym grades we were stressin about

All is low end mocc

John Clarkwrote:

All is low end mocc

That rig would be TCP- in my gym.

I've got 2 probably not new hot takes for y'all:

Aid climbing is actually quite a bit of fun, unless you are stuck belaying 

And smith rock doesn't actually have much choss/most of what people call choss at smith isn't actually particularly chossy. I climbed there for a week and didn't knock so much as a pebble off any of the climbs I did. The worst I found was a flake that was on the thin side on a climb that was at a rarely visited crag.

Probably a pretty mild take: the proliferation of Instagram guide and "how-to" content has got a whole cohort of beginning climbers obsessing about unimportant details and systems to the point of hurting their ability to actually do the climb. 99% of the time they would be better off mastering a few basic skills than learning 18 different anchor configurations.

Elaine Gilstromwrote:

I've got 2 probably not new hot takes for y'all:

Aid climbing is actually quite a bit of fun, unless you are stuck belaying 

And smith rock doesn't actually have much choss/most of what people call choss at smith isn't actually particularly chossy. I climbed there for a week and didn't knock so much as a pebble off any of the climbs I did. The worst I found was a flake that was on the thin side on a climb that was at a rarely visited crag.

Yosemite is choss. So many loose ass flakes on "classics"

Connor Dobsonwrote:

Yosemite is choss. 

Granite is over-rated

Jay Crewwrote:

Granite is over-rated

High-desert choss is the best!

Elaine Gilstromwrote:

I've got 2 probably not new hot takes for y'all:

Aid climbing is actually quite a bit of fun, unless you are stuck belaying 

And smith rock doesn't actually have much choss/most of what people call choss at smith isn't actually particularly chossy. I climbed there for a week and didn't knock so much as a pebble off any of the climbs I did. The worst I found was a flake that was on the thin side on a climb that was at a rarely visited crag.

As long as you have a good ledge, some spliffs and some good tunes, aid belaying is arguably the best part of walling!

Elaine Gilstromwrote:

I've got 2 probably not new hot takes for y'all:

Aid climbing is actually quite a bit of fun, unless you are stuck belaying 

And smith rock doesn't actually have much choss/most of what people call choss at smith isn't actually particularly chossy. I climbed there for a week and didn't knock so much as a pebble off any of the climbs I did. The worst I found was a flake that was on the thin side on a climb that was at a rarely visited crag.

Regardless of the choss reputation of a crag, the chossyness of most climbs is a function of traffic. Smith I think embodies this best, climb something that does not have any ticks, there is a thin layer of gravel that will be crumbling off. 

My hot take: Climbing Resumes are stupid. 

Jay Crewwrote:

Granite is over-rated

Although some of the most beautiful and iconic areas and routes I’ve sampled have been granite, if I’m honest, I generally prefer the movement of steep volcanic, sandstone, and limestone choss caves.

It is possible to climb too many splitter Wingate cracks - you start to forget how to do any other kind of movement

Jabroni McChufferson wrote:

Hot take: just call it 5.9, 5.9+ ,5.10, 5.11, 5.12 , 5.13. Keep its simple and lessen then feather bagging 

And give up the only benchmarks I scrape crumbs of self worth from?

HEFTY no thank you sir

almostradwrote:

And give up the only benchmarks I scrape crumbs of self worth from?

HEFTY no thank you sir

Hefty? Pretty sure you are an obese armchair troll, bro.

The hottest of takes: 

People need to chill about dogs. I grew up in (eastern) Europe where dogs run around uninhibited in lots of outdoor areas and no one bats an eyelid. I was pretty shocked when I came to the US and saw how uptight people are about dogs, like every pup is one breath away from mauling a child. Of course aggressive dogs are a different story but I've been around plenty of dogs at crags and I've never seen anything terrible happen. I get that some dogs can be an annoyance but I find people at the crag annoying too and I don't demand their absence. I know there is a different standard here and I adhere to it but it continues to surprise me. 

Flame away...