Small cams with lobe metal most similar to Totems?

Hello! Of all the small cams out there, are there any with lobes that feel like Totem lobes? I've always found that what gives me so much confidence in a Totem placement is the "stickiness" of their lobes. I think I've read that they are made of a softer-than-normal metal? I replaced my red Totem with a green ULMC and while I love the action and quality of it, I find that the lobes feel...slippery almost? Like they're too hard?

I already own the blue and black totems. I'm looking to add complimentary doubles of those and cams in the 0.1 and 0.2 ballpark.

Aliens.

Dave Stallardwrote:

Aliens.

The new ones are pretty nice.

I'm a tad confused about Aliens. Which version is the newest/best? Revolutions? X's? Originals?

X's are the newest Aliens. 

Aliens have the softest aluminum of any cam, they softer than Totems. They are also super flexible, which is great for sticking and not walking but can be a pain in the ass when placing and they are not very durable. 

Aliens, Z4's, zeros, and dragonflies are all roughly about as good as each other in sizes under totems. The Z4's place the best, the aliens stick the best, dragonflies are built the best, and zeros are a mashup of all of them. Pick your poison. C3's are a notch down from all of those, but have a cult following. X4's and ULMC are tied for last place in small cams. None of them are bad options. 

In the sizes they come in Totems are the champion. 

Malcolm Schusterwrote:

I'm a tad confused about Aliens. Which version is the newest/best? Revolutions? X's? Originals?

The original Aliens have a sort of cult following. I personally love mine, they make a great compliment to totem cams. Similar to the slight offset in sizes between Wild Country and Metolious cams. Some folks don’t care for how the thumb loop feels though. They altered it with the Revos, seems like they’re a bit more comfortable.

In reality, Totems are the best of the best for smaller finicky placements in oddly shaped features. Below 0.2 size, the black alien is great and if you can find em, BD C3’s are great too 

Keep your green metolius for alpine missions. It's the lightest cam you can buy in that size and ~40g  lighter than red totem, which is almost the weight of bringing a microcam. 

Scott Dwrote:

X's are the newest Aliens. 

Aliens have the softest aluminum of any cam, they softer than Totems. They are also super flexible, which is great for sticking and not walking but can be a pain in the ass when placing and they are not very durable. 

Aliens, Z4's, zeros, and dragonflies are all roughly about as good as each other in sizes under totems. The Z4's place the best, the aliens stick the best, dragonflies are built the best, and zeros are a mashup of all of them. Pick your poison. C3's are a notch down from all of those, but have a cult following. X4's and ULMC are tied for last place in small cams. 

In the sizes they come in Totems are the champion. 

Thank you! I choose the position of sticking the best for sure.

Per your other comment though, I will definitely be keeping my green ULMC. I"m definitely a fan of it, and may even get more. I just don't LOVE the lobes. 

Yeah, the lobes of the ULMC are "slicker" than other cam lobes. They use a very hard alloy. That doesn't matter for many placements and rock types but on hard basalt and water polished granite ULMC's are not the best. 

There was a time when Metolius was a leader in the cam market. Alpine climbing is the only genre that ULMC's are a real contender for best-in-category. Even then, their limited range is not ideal when bringing fewer cams.

I think Metolius' cam lineup is due for an overhaul. Keep selling the ULMC's as an ultralight option. Eliminate Powercams, Supercams, and Fatcams altogether. Replace them with a new version of the Mastercam with thumb loops, micro to offwidth sizes, softer lobes, and a better trigger bar system. Redesign TCU's with the stems between the lobes like C3's and dominate that market. 

Scott Dwrote:

C3's are a notch down from all of those, but have a cult following. X4's and ULMC are tied for last place in small cams.

That doesn't matter for many placements and rock types but on hard basalt and water polished granite ULMC's are not the best

I think this is just an opinion?  As an example, note that this redpoint rack for a 5.13 basalt crack is almost exclusively C3s, Metolius TCUs, and Mastercams:

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/111368759/shushaynsh

I don't climb anywhere near 5.13, but I have taken lots of falls on ULMCs and the majority of the climbing in my local area is on basalt, never had a problem.

There is a lot of subjective personal preference in cam selection, some people hate cams that others love.

Cam performance is a tradeoff between device range, device strength, cam material elasticity, and cam material strength (cam geometry, weight, etc...). I'm not exactly sure what "stickiness" is or why it should be the measure of confidence. (Thought exercise: why aren't cams made out of the sticky rubber found on the bottom of climbing shoes?) But a less elastic cam material in conjunction with a smaller cam angle (and thus, less range) MIGHT well be similarly "sticky" and fail at a higher load.

Scott Dwrote:

Aliens, Z4's, zeros, and dragonflies are all roughly about as good as each other in sizes under totems. 

WC Zeros in the 0.1 and 0.2 sizes use a thinner cable and quickly become kinked, twisted, and too floppy to place. I switched to the Dragonflies and have been much happier with them.

dave custerwrote:

Cam performance is a tradeoff between device range, device strength, cam material elasticity, and cam material strength (cam geometry, weight, etc...). I'm not exactly sure what "stickiness" is or why it should be the measure of confidence. (Thought exercise: why aren't cams made out of the sticky rubber found on the bottom of climbing shoes?) But a less elastic cam material in conjunction with a smaller cam angle (and thus, less range) MIGHT well be similarly "sticky" and fail at a higher load.

Stickiness is evident in regular use, and especially when aid climbing. Some will refer to it as "bite", basically it's how quickly the cam grips the rock and initiates camming action. Does bite confer to better fall protection? Maybe in shallow placements, but it's hard to say the rest of the time. Is it the best thing to base confidence on? Who knows, but it feels better when a cam does not shift as you commit your body weight to it.

Softer aluminum alloys tends to bite quicker. That's what the OP was asking about. Totems bite quickly (cam lobe texture + direct loading?), and so do aliens (soft lobes?).

I've found ULMC's more prone to slight slips, shifting, and making weird noises under body weight. This only happens in marginal placements (which I'm sometimes trying to practice on and evaluate) on smooth rock. Totems and aliens seem to "stick" better in the same placements. 

Kyle Tarrywrote:

I think this is just an opinion?  As an example, note that this redpoint rack for a 5.13 basalt crack is almost exclusively C3s, Metolius TCUs, and Mastercams:

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/111368759/shushaynsh

I don't climb anywhere near 5.13, but I have taken lots of falls on ULMCs and the majority of the climbing in my local area is on basalt, never had a problem.

There is a lot of subjective personal preference in cam selection, some people hate cams that others love.

Yes this is largely, but maybe not entirely, subjective.

Basalt is a diverse rock type. Basalt crag could mean crumbly, textured rock or bullet-hard, smooth rock. I'm not saying ULMC's or C3's are bad for basalt, just that Totems and Aliens outperform them. 

C3's are popular for high grade climbers. The stems are stiff and the heads are narrow, they can be fired into complex placements quickly. Speed is a huge benefit when you are pumping out. That plus fitting in weird spots and withstanding repeated falls makes them popular for headpointing and projecting. 

Those same benefits may be dubious for the 5.10 climber. Three lobed cams pivot easily, not ideal for parallel cracks. Stiff stems are prone to walking, not ideal for wandering moderates. It's just something to consider before jumping on the C3 hype train. 

All modern cams are quite good, we are arguing over small differences.