New and experienced climbers over 50 #30

Kristian Solem wrote:

Orwell is relevant, but it was Aldous Huxley, in his Brave New World, who foresaw the role that technology would play in our societal devolution.

"People will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think."

A friend and I were recently musing/lamenting how the 'modern' K-12 education system has moved away from teaching grammar, spelling, handwriting, and basic mathematics, with the rationale that these functions can all be accomplished by simple computer functions. Functional people become that way through striving towards mastery of basic skill sets.

Brandt Allen wrote:

Brad - I have your Sonora Guide, 2001 edition. Sad to say I've never used it! I really need to get up there one of these days.

Oh God, what a horrible book! These things take experience, and that 2001 book... ahem, provided that. As a result the 2007 Pinnacles guidebook came out nicely and the 2013 Sonora Pass book at least as well.

The 2013 book has about 1,200 more routes than that fall-apart collector's edition you have (and I've tracked more than 800 additional routes since the 2013 book came out).

If you make time to climb up here, we'll make time to join you (and get you a better guidebook).

Brad Young wrote:

Oh God, what a horrible book! 

Ha! I've seen a lot worse!   

apogee wrote:

A friend and I were recently musing/lamenting how the 'modern' K-12 education system has moved away from teaching grammar, spelling, handwriting, and basic mathematics, with the rationale that these functions can all be accomplished by simple computer functions. Functional people become that way through striving towards mastery of basic skill sets.

I can't speak for other school programs, and my daughter is only in second grade, but she is learning a ton of this stuff. Matter of fact they started them on math word problems in first grade. It started with stuff like "Katie gets seven pieces of candy for Halloween, then she eats three, how many are left?" Or "Sean has two dogs, three fish, and a hamster. How many pets does he have all together".  Then it got harder. Some of them I really had to think hard to solve. I was impressed. 

GO

Got to the climbing gym this evening. Close to sending another V8. It would be my second. 

https://youtu.be/ygSatOidQyQ?si=4v_g2-NPGUA94JDe

Oh, and it has two jams (left hand and then right fist). Without them it would be much much harder. Getting to a right foot jam at the end will be the key to getting in balance and sending. 

GO

Kristian Solem wrote:

Orwell is relevant, but it was Aldous Huxley, in his Brave New World, who foresaw the role that technology would play in our societal devolution.

"People will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think."

Orwell knew why it would happen, Huxley knew how.  And take a look at Eric Hoffer's The True Believer. 

Actually both Huxley and Orwell were somewhat wide of the mark . By the time of 1984 and Animal Farm the world had already seen what form Totalitarian states would take in the reality of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. Huxley 's version of a future dystopia , written in 1931, was the more fantastic. Both contrasting versions  were post-modern reactions to  Enlightenment rationalism, a rationalism that produced, among other things , Marxism. (Probably one of the greatest evils in modern times is the idea that human nature can be perfected)

At the moment it is thought by some that human psychology is the driving force of totalitarian outcomes; what Mattias Desmet calls "mass formations" a type of mass psychosis which is preceded and made possible by rootless, atomized individuals who can be manipulated into fixing their anxieties upon certain targets during times of great fear and chaos. Hannah Arendt thought that total domination destroyed human spontaneity and self-worth; as was certainly done in the death camps to most of those who survived.

At any rate, the old time Totalitarian states are probably rendered antiquated--but not the need of certain groups and individuals  to enslave their fellow humans. As it now looks maybe technology will come to the fore and play a commanding role in the dark side of human nature, just as Huxley and Orwell predicted.  But unlike their versions maybe the future dystopias won't even bother with humans. They'll be transhuman.

 " Animals are equal.But some animals are more equal than others"      - Animal Farm

As for gym climbing versus outdoor, I love climbing in the gym: it's where I started. But I also don't think of it as "real" climbing. And practically, I mostly use it as training. 

For me, outdoor climbing satisfies many more of my "needs" than does indoor climbing. Who was it (a British climber, I think) that said that they needed serious climbs to "feed the rat".  That is certainly true for me. I don't necessarily need a ton of it, but without some real adventure climbing from time to time I get anxious and squirrelly.  The rat gnaws at my insides and protests its meager rations.

That said, every discipline of rock climbing (indoor, sport, bouldering, trad, and alpine, plus all the sub-disciplines) is satisfying and gratifying in its own way.  Still, for me, "real climbing" means going into the unknown, soaring above the every day, getting scared, using all my abilities as best I can, and living to tell the tale.  I need that.

GO

apogee wrote:

A friend and I were recently musing/lamenting how the 'modern' K-12 education system has moved away from teaching grammar, spelling, handwriting, and basic mathematics, with the rationale that these functions can all be accomplished by simple computer functions. Functional people become that way through striving towards mastery of basic skill sets.

This is exactly why we have paid extra attention to school districts and less attention to property taxes. It is a common theme in this country to basically babysit kids and push them through into the blue collar workforce with no more than what many of us know as a middle school education. My wife taught at a small local university for a few years and was appalled at the education many of her students were bringing with them to the university and this was Massachusetts,  not Mississippi!

Speaking of Huxley, he definitely predicted a world of pharmaceuticals becoming the norm, it's definitely one of the first steps into human slavery.  Get them extremely comfortable... I had a doctor prescribe me a muscle relaxer years back, guess the name- Soma

I was at the gym recently and saw the boulder bros all sitting in a row, hunchbacked and staring at their screens, no socializing going on at all. Occasionally (when I'm a boulder bro) I'll try and start a conversation with someone only to find they have earbuds in and have tuned the whole place out...

EDIT: I missed MM’s post above. Looks like we’re all thinking about the same thing.   

I’ve been thinking about Rolling Stones concerts lately. Actually, any music from 1968 to 1971. It’s hard to explain to anyone younger the magic and the freedom of music at that time. A lot of the concerts I went to were held at the Inglewood Forum. Getting tickets was almost as fun as the concert itself because we would show up on a pre-designated day, camp out all night on the hoods of our cars and have a regular party. At that time there were largely no curfews and a concert could go on all night. There were no sponsorship banners. There was not a shred of commercialism. No beer, cigarette, business office supplies, commercials draped everywhere.

There were also regular Sunday afternoon free concerts at Griffith Park. We would hitchhike or carpool there before noon and dance on that huge lawn to whatever bands and spontaneous music showed up.

I remember the first three Led Zeppelin concerts I saw at The Forum that were such a celebration, uninhibited, powerful. Janis Joplin at the Hollywood Bowl—just wild and raw. There were no T-shirts to buy on the way out.  

Fast-forward… I’ve been watching a particular K-pop group because one of the guys is the best dancer I’ve ever seen. So there’s a series on Apple TV about K-pop groups, how they are chosen, groomed, relentlessly pushed to be the best in every department, including rap.  These guys and girls are in training for four years before they even get to be in a group.  They learn how to look, and feel like the image the public expects.  But as for their music, it is sanitized to fit the needs of any 13-year-old girl or 45-year-old housewife. There’s not a spontaneous moment anywhere, certainly not a controversial one

And then they put on massive concerts worldwide advertised as “rock ‘n’ roll“ where they rake in billions of dollars.  And the kids believe they are watching a rock ‘n’ roll concert.

For me, I realize that this represents the same contrast between a John Bachar, or Dean Potter, and Janja.  

Not even that one is better than the other. Who could fail to appreciate the phenomena of climbing gyms and the young athletes of today.  But it’s all pretty foreign to me. And maybe that’s why I’ve been asking. “where have all the Cowboys gone“ here in Joshua Tree. And why did you have to slap a lecture on Gone With The Wind?

Gabe probably summarized it perfectly. We have to make room for both. I just feel with each passing year that we are losing some magic.

—-

Just saw this in my ConsumerLabs report regarding vertigo (benign paroxysmal positional vertigo (or BPPV)

continuing my own health journey, I had all my fat soluble vitamins, tested, and was shocked to see that they are all marginal or below normal. Very surprising that my vitamin D level is 30, right on the cusp, given that I am outside in direct sunlight every day and have a deep tan.  

Donald Thompson wrote:

Actually both Huxley and Orwell were somewhat wide of the mark . By the time of 1984 and Animal Farm the world had already seen what form Totalitarian states would take in the reality of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. Huxley 's version of a future dystopia , written in 1931, was the more fantastic. Both contrasting versions  were post-modern reactions to  Enlightenment rationalism, a rationalism that produced, among other things , Marxism. (Probably one of the greatest evils in modern times is the idea that human nature can be perfected)

At the moment it is thought by some that human psychology is the driving force of totalitarian outcomes; what Mattias Desmet calls "mass formations" a type of mass psychosis which is preceded and made possible by rootless, atomized individuals who can be manipulated into fixing their anxieties upon certain targets during times of great fear and chaos. Hannah Arendt thought that total domination destroyed human spontaneity and self-worth; as was certainly done in the death camps to most of those who survived.

At any rate, the old time Totalitarian states are probably rendered antiquated--but not the need of certain groups and individuals  to enslave their fellow humans. As it now looks maybe technology will come to the fore and play a commanding role in the dark side of human nature, just as Huxley and Orwell predicted.  But unlike their versions maybe the future dystopias won't even bother with humans. They'll be transhuman.

 " Animals are equal.But some animals are more equal than others"      - Animal Farm

It’s very difficult to predict the future.

The best minds from Rand Corporation predicted in 1954 what a personal computer would look like in our present.

Xerox did a better job in the 1970s.

But humans haven’t really changed much.

Li Hu wrote:

It’s very difficult to predict the future.

The best minds from Rand Corporation predicted in 1954 what a personal computer would look like in our present.

Xerox did a better job in the 1970s.

But humans haven’t really changed much.

Yes that's true of very localized, largely non-repeatable events such as the early stage of computer development. Even so there were several people in the 60s and very early 70s who had predicted that computers would likely become compact enough to put in public kiosks or in people's homes ( Alvin Tofler in Future Shock, for instance). 

Repeatable, large scale events are easier to predict --such as  :  I predict the universe will continue expanding, and even that the sun will come up tomorrow. Not 100%/but pretty close.

Some human tendencies, historically determined, fit into this category. For the known history of the human race there have been large scale repeatable events, such as plague, war, mass migrations, and stunningly bad governments-- stupid, brutal, and tyrannical. These bad things will very,very likely repeat, although in altered form , according to radically changing variables such as technology-- as Orwell and Huxley entertainingly reminded us.

Li Hu wrote:

It’s very difficult to predict the future.

The best minds from Rand Corporation predicted in 1954 what a personal computer would look like in our present.

Xerox did a better job in the 1970s.

But humans haven’t really changed much.

I don't have the info. available at hand - it was part of a freelance article I did - but in the '60s ( I think), there were quite a few infectious disease physicians who were confident that infectious diseases would be eradicated and their specialty would die out. Not crackpots, either. I'll see if I can find the article and post some this.

I am happy to report that I had my first Pilates class today and I expect that within a few weeks I will be climbing as well as Kris Solem. Maybe even better.    

I’ll have what he’s having.   

Lori Milas wrote:

Just saw this in my ConsumerLabs report regarding vertigo (benign paroxysmal positional vertigo (or BPPV)

Or you can do the Epley maneuver and be done with it. May take a few repetitions.

wendy weiss wrote:

Or you can do the Epley maneuver and be done with it. May take a few repetitions.

Many forms of chronic vertigo ( BPPV) may be the result of calcium deposits floating around in the inner ear. Vitamin D in conjunction with vitamin k2 help to keep calcium deposits out of the blood vessels and ear and into the bone/ teeth where it belongs. Check with doc.

Lori Milas wrote:

I am happy to report that I had my first Pilates class today and I expect that within a few weeks I will be climbing as well as Kris Solem. Maybe even better.   

That’s great!

GabeO wrote:

I can't speak for other school programs, and my daughter is only in second grade, but she is learning a ton of this stuff. Matter of fact they started them on math word problems in first grade. It started with stuff like "Katie gets seven pieces of candy for Halloween, then she eats three, how many are left?" Or "Sean has two dogs, three fish, and a hamster. How many pets does he have all together".  Then it got harder. Some of them I really had to think hard to solve. I was impressed. 

GO

Actually I should have mentioned that our school district may be an outlier, as it is ranked as one of the best in MA, which in turn is one of the best in the country.  So maybe the only point to take from my post is that (at least some) better performing school districts do recognize the importance of learning fundamentals, and even take it a step further to teach the simplest conceptual mathematics in conjunction with the arithmetic itself.

GO

GabeO wrote:

I can't speak for other school programs, and my daughter is only in second grade, but she is learning a ton of this stuff. Matter of fact they started them on math word problems in first grade. It started with stuff like "Katie gets seven pieces of candy for Halloween, then she eats three, how many are left?" Or "Sean has two dogs, three fish, and a hamster. How many pets does he have all together".  Then it got harder. Some of them I really had to think hard to solve. I was impressed. 

GO

In Australia we call this 'numeracy' rather than 'maths' or 'math'. I work in education within a prison context, many of our clients have some gaps in their learning. While one needs to know the mechanics of math (how to add up, subtract, divide etc) that's not how it works in the real world. What we experience is what you call math word problems "everything in store 30% off" or even just thoughts about what we need to do 'The meal cost $75.60 all up. There are three of us. we're going to split the bill evenly. How much do I need to pay if I consider also that Fred owes me 10 bucks?'

Teaching students how to highlight the important text, and even what words like 'more', 'less', 'greater than', 'less than' etc etc mean is just as important as doing 'sums'.

Generally, I teach computing (MS Office) but there's no point in teaching someone how to create formulas in Excel if they don't grasp the fundamentals and don't understand the sequence of operations that change results i.e. 2+3x4 opposed to (2+3)x4.

Some adults can't work out a simple problem like 'What is 50 multiplied by 50%?'.  There are quite a few that will tell you the answer is 75.    

BTW, the example above (Katie at Halloween with candy) also provides relevance; a reason for doing the sum. To this day, I clearly remember being given a little paper book in high school of 'logarithm tables'.  You had to look up a number to find its log. I recall raising my hand and saying 'But, what IS a logarithm?'. The teacher just said, 'Don't worry about that Carl, just look it up'. I was lost from that point; I had no reason to do it.  

Talking about relevance, to make this relevant to this forum, my spreadsheet tells me there are 37 days left until I go climbing in the Blue Mountains. I'm feeling slightly trepidatious.  

GabeO wrote:

Got to the climbing gym this evening. Close to sending another V8. It would be my second. 

https://youtu.be/ygSatOidQyQ?si=4v_g2-NPGUA94JDe

Oh, and it has two jams (left hand and then right fist). Without them it would be much much harder. Getting to a right foot jam at the end will be the key to getting in balance and sending. 

GO

I bet there’s a lot of young gym climbers that would not consider using the hand jams.