How the heck are people climbing on the diamond via north chimney & finishing before noon

Awesome! Sounds like you exceeded everyone's expectations, including your own, and even came close to the totemic 12:00 topout. I wouldn't call your time slow for a first-time party.

I'm impressed you onsight soloed the North Chimney in the dark. I would not have wanted to do that, although I guess there's more beta these days. Seems like that was the key to getting the day off to a good fast start, so it wasn't as big of a deal when you slowed down up high.

Thanks for the entertaining thread and detailed report. 

The way things happened to work out, soloing was important because another party let us go first (appreciate it!); if we'd been 5 minutes later we would be 2nd and it would be a very different day.. However otherwise, I think it would've been fine to simul the top of north chimney and p1 of casual together as one simulpitch and would've only cost a few minutes more. (fine in terms of time but might actually be more dangerous if the rope is knocking rocks?)

Just want to suggest an edit here: "the party that arrived at the base of the climb first graciously allowed us to start before them". Cool trip report, glad you guys had a good day!

Oh And also another beta I wanted to share or confirm is, afaik, I don't see a reason why you couldn't descend like:

• Summit to Table ledge [4th, I didn't find any 5.4 even]
• Table Ledge to Almost Table Ledge (short rap off 3-bolt anchor plus maybe some traversing? or maybe rap directly to next Diamond rap station? Regardless the point is there are rap bolts on Table Ledge which can be reached via 4th class from summit).
• Almost Table Ledge To Broadway with double rope raps 
• Broadway to Mills Glacier with double rope raps 

I'd hesitate to rely on this as your plan, because I didn't actually do it.. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. It seems like it would be faster than the 5th avenue thing if your bivy is at the highest bivy sites and if the raps were clear as they were on sat. Not to mention 5th avenue would get dangerous with >1 person in it. 

At 5 minutes per belay transition a team adds 1 hour for 12 pitches. Get your systems wired and don’t chat on the route. 

Not sure why everyone focuses on belay transitions. Obviously everyone is already transitioning - and climbing - as fast as they can. People don't waste time on purpose. Each climber climbing the pitch 5minutes slower also adds 2 hours across 12 pitches... For example, if we'd climbed the crux as fast as the other pitches, it would've saved us 90 minutes. whereas reducing our transitions from 3 to 1 minutes would save 14 minutes total.. At the end of the day if the climbing is hard for you it will take time. 

Because belay transitions eat into time while the rope is not moving upward. Some pitches go slow some go fast but if you always keep transitions short then you stack the odds in your favor. 

Right but my belay transitions are pretty much already optimized to the maximum extent I'm willing/able to do.. I'm already building an anchor as fast as I can, pulling rope as fast as I can, not going in direct on anchors between following and leading, being ready to follow before put on belay, etc.  If I do something that spends extra time (looking at topo, changing a layer, reconfiguring anchor) that is a decision that I made rationally by deciding that the benefits were worth the time cost. I think this is true for most climbers who have >1 year of multipitch experience and are past the stage of wasting time on random clusters.  Plus, for that same set of basically-competent climbers, their belay transitions have a certain floor and ceiling (say between 1-5 mins per pitch) so there are only diminishing gains to be made. 

Cool! Was just answering your question about the focus on transitions. It’s quite generous of you to assume that people who have been climbing for more than a year have transitions dialed. That is not my experience. 

A.Eatonwrote:

Cool! Was just answering your question about the focus on transitions. It’s quite generous of you to assume that people who have been climbing for more than a year have transitions dialed. That is not my experience. 

One person’s “dialed” is another person’s “unfathomably slow”. Much like how one person’s “try hard” is another person’s “normal output” and how a “5.7 offwidth” is “the standard part of a vedauwoo approach”. All relative.

I’ve found a “dialed” set up is able to turn over a belay in about 3 minutes on trad lines and 90 seconds on sport routes - that is, time from arriving at the anchor as a follower to leaving as a belayer. It does take practice with a partner to get there though - and you’re not gonna hit that on every belay, but it’s a good target to aim for. There’s probably only one person I climb with regularly that I can regularly hit those cadences with but man you feel like you’re absolutely flying up the wall when you can

Yall are gonna be really disappointed when you hear how slow transitions are for ice climbing   

congrats ellen, glad to hear it went well.  some good observations, particularly about the escaper.  i would be a little hesitant to be up there with one rope and an escaper as well.

I have been part of this story many times in many places. Early start, absolutely cruising, seems like we’re totally going to get back early. Two pitches later, just hoping I don’t have to spend the night up there.

No criticism from me. Nice work. I miss the Diamond.

Ellen Swrote:

Not sure why everyone focuses on belay transitions. Obviously everyone is already transitioning - and climbing - as fast as they can. People don't waste time on purpose. Each climber climbing the pitch 5minutes slower also adds 2 hours across 12 pitches... For example, if we'd climbed the crux as fast as the other pitches, it would've saved us 90 minutes. whereas reducing our transitions from 3 to 1 minutes would save 14 minutes total.. At the end of the day if the climbing is hard for you it will take time. 

I agree with you on transitions but I didn't climb "as fast as I can" except in a storm or with darkness being imminent.  

FWIW, what always worked for me and my partners on long routes was to have everything ready to go the night before and have "a sense of urgency" from the moment you woke in the morning.  Breakfast, packing up, the approach, gearing up, etc. all executed with an economy of movement but without rushing.

Once the climbing began, the focus shifted to the old adage "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast," calm without rushing. In terms of speed, onsighting the route is more important than anything else.

And good work, Ellen!  

Hi Ellen, 

You ask some great questions. 

Some advice I recommend for you that I have used in the past to gauge how "efficient I am" and how long I think the climb will take me. I try to go out and see how fast I am climbing or approaching things of similar altitude/elevation, distance, difficulty and then that gives me a good idea of how fast I am at an approach or when I am leading vs following. For example, I am going to be much slower at climbing at my limit, and much faster at climbing several grades below my limit- whats yours and what do you think slows you down the most? Is it leading? Is it anchor building or rope management? Are you finding yourself futzing with your backpack or snacks or layers all day? Are you using the same system all the time, or dont really know what system you like to use for layers, snacks, etc? In addition, I also have used Steph Abegg's times for a lot of gauging and other friends' times to help my decision making.

On average, I try breaking it up by segments and what pitches I am going to lead vs my partner. For example- times and pitch break down for my friend and I on Perviertical last summer. I don't consider myself a fast climber, I'd say i'm pretty average to below average. 

Leave TH at 2 or 3am (barf I know)  

• Car to the base of the north chimney 
  • I like to give myself 3 hours for the approach (again, I have approached the diamond and have looked at my approach times and it usually averages out anywhere between 2:45 to 3 hours)
    • Time: 0530/0600
• North chimney 
  • I like to simul the north chimney, and usually when I have gone I am the follower as I KNOW I will likely be a faster follower than leader and we do typically start in the dark or are in the chimney at first light.
  • I really really really really strive to be the first party in the chimney, which again, means I am probably starting in the dark or first light... and probably on a weekday if I was going for the casual route... I will bring my pack with me, but I am usually traveling pretty light. If I KNOW I am going to be rapping- there is a chance I stash down low. I can give you more details about what I like to bring if any of this info is found useful to you and you want to dive further into the alpine black hole.
  • I give the north chimney at least an hour+, given shenanigans, people sending things down, etc. It totally depends on the climber and how well they know the chimney/ if there are other parties involved.  
    • If you don't have the north chimney dialed and are nervous about it- go with someone who does have it dialed, or maybe if you have the flexibility, go up on a week day (after work? who works anyway?) to figure out the north chimney when no one is in it, obviously only do this when you know you have splitter weather, and you ample daylight. This will give you the confidence to know where to go in the dark or very early light. Or hey, if you're feeling really fun you can make a day out if and do Kors door, then go check out the north chimney after.
  • Time: 0630/0700
• Broadway:
  • Don't loligag! Rack up while you're eating your snack, putting your layers on, getting your mini pack ready to go, taking care of your business. At this point if you're in good shape and ready to be up there, you shouldn't need a "break" at this point- you still have 6 pitches of climbing ahead of you. You'd better have some in the tank by then.
  • Start climbing: 0720/0730
    • We started at 0736am (My photo of Erin starting the climb)
  • A lot of the climbs on the diamond are 6/7 pitches- casual route- 6 pitchs, hour per pitch (it really should take you less time as some of the pitches are short, and some you can link! do research) 
    • On Pervertical my partner and I did it in blocks as she felt she was going to be slower/ did not want the cruxes, and I felt during that time I could climb them efficiently. 
      • She lead p1, and then linked p2&3. I took over on P4 and P5. She lead p6 to table ledge.
      • Erin took a photo of me topping out to her at 1301.
  • If you think weather is coming in- time to boogie!- raps might take you an hour. If not, keiners to the summit doesnt add much more time, but then dont forget you have to get down cables.
• Raps
  • Erin and I have both been on the summit of Longs before, and we knew weather was coming in by 2 or 3pm- time to boogie!
  • We were on broadway at 1355 (I think earlier as we had already grabbed our gear and hunkered in the bivy cave as the storm rolled in- this was my next photo time stamp) 

All in all- you know your limits, it seems like you are getting the mileage right now, maybe make the diamond an endish objective next summer after you are feeling fit and strong. I had done the diamond last year with Erin after: big spring regularly climbing in Eldo, Notchtop in June, July 4th week- Squamish trip: multiple days of climbing 10-13 pitches, climbed the barb when I was home, Great Dihedral romp day, climbed D7 late July, Grand Teton trip in august, climbed Pervertical on August 19th on a semi OK to me weather window day KNOWING the following: how fast I move, how fast my partner moves, how efficient we are together, and having all of the previous days/ training on me before that with time stamps. This gave me the knowledge and confidence to know we could go on a semi shit weather day, and get back to a safe spot before weather hit us. This also made the north chimney people free as Erin and I had the diamond to ourselves that morning. Shrug, sometimes the alpine provides. 

Cheers and good luck to you! It sounds like you are on track to getting diamond ready :)

I've soloed the north chimney once n rapped into Broadway from Chasm view twice. Always rapped down to Chasm View to hike out.

At that elevation, ur just going to be climbing slower. One strategy I use to keep the leader moving at a good pace for these single day objectives is to only carry one 22-25L  backpack on the follower. Everything else hangs off my harness. Light puffy, light rainshell, shoes, food/headlamp in pockets n more food/water in backpack. Hydration packs instead of bottles. Tag line on follower or leader trails it. U can even let the follower carry ur shoes when it gets hard. If ur not linking pitches, everything will seem long. Learn how to do that keeping ur rope straight for 70m. 2 min belay transitions. Stop placing so much gear! Ur targets shud match ur skillset. Make sure to go on routes with experienced ppl who will show u the ropes, so to speak. Get out to Indian Creek and train, train, train! It's all about mileage! All these other excellent time-saving strategies will just fall into place.

Semi-related (he certainly finished before noon) -- Boulder local John Alcorn broke the Diamond speed record yesterday, climbing it in a BLISTERING 3:09 car-to-car!! strava.com/activities/12306…

Jack Neuswrote:

Semi-related (he certainly finished before noon) -- Boulder local John Alcorn broke the Diamond speed record yesterday, climbing it in a BLISTERING 3:09 car-to-car!! strava.com/activities/12306…

Blistering.  Strong work John!