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Best paint for SS hangers/ anchors?
Dan Bachenwrote: Do you by chance know how well your spray paint job is holding up? |
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I’m not a big fan of painting hangers and hardware, but if it must be done, use a 10 minute bath in vinegar to etch the metal (zinc plated chain). Rust-Oleum sells a self etching primer in nearly every store. Kind of a dark moss green/grey color. Sticks like shit on a blanket. Then a quick coat of whatever color you want and you’re done. I’ve done this to chain and it has held up for 15 years and still looks good. Don’t cheap out on the top coat of paint. |
abe rwrote: Only been a few years, but the hangers are holding up well. Chain and quick links too. |
Greg Dwrote: Sheesh, Just trying to be salty eh? Go take your brain food and journal it out. |
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Not to beat a dead horse here but figured I’d revive the thread with a few questions/comments - I’ve seen the claim that camoing hardware is likely to reduce its lifespan, and I don’t doubt it at all. Are there any studies on how much it would be expected to reduce it by? Is there any similar study on heat tinting and its effects on corrosion resistance long term? - Is there an efficient way to heat tint in bulk like there is painting in bulk? - just a note - I’ve found painting using the methods above of self etching primer + top coat to work great but it’s imperative you let the paint cure as long as possible before moving them if you can. I think the cans typically say full cure time is around 5 days and that seems to be about right to me |
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It's not a question of reducing the lifespan (which we don't know anyway) but increasing the likelyhood of them corroding and in the case of painting making it impossible to see if they have corroded. Heat tinting is done commercially so you'll find a company that can do it but getting a suitable ectric furnace is hardly a hobby item. |
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Best way to do it is a tumbler with ceramic media for stainless, knocks the shine off and theres no need for paint. |
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Revisiting and reviving an old thread - seems like 500F is a decent sweet spot for color tinting and also happens the be the “self cleaning” temp for most home kitchen ovens. Anybody tried heat tinting en masse in their own kitchen? |
Chris Vinsonwrote: How long do you leave the hardware in the tumbler? Do you know if this process has any effect on the passivated surface layer of the metal? |
Tal Mwrote: ....and how long did you leave the hardware in the oven? |
Salamanizer Skiwrote: Do you neutralize or rinse after the etching bath? |
bernard wolfewrote: As long as you want, the media impacts the shine significantly. Passivate after tumbling and you're good to go. |
bernard wolfewrote: Just a quick rinse in water. |
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Hello all, I’ll start with apologizing for the length of this comment. I hope you’ll have the patience to read, test and reply :-). One thing that always bothered me with bolts is how shiny they are and how in the right sunny conditions you can see them from a mile away. Does not work with LMT principles (Leave Minimal Trace). Years ago I was painting hangers to match the rock but obviously the paint will end up chipping off after a while. So, my solution in recent years is “Bluing” my Wave & Meteora bolts on my stove. The process darkens the metal and gives it a marbleized look that is not shiny and blends beautifully into the rock. See attached pic:  A few months back I decided that it may be a good idea to check with someone if I’m doing something that may compromise the strength so I exchanged a few emails with Issac from WaveBolt.com. (See entire conversation below). After checking with others he seems to think it may weaken the metal. Before, and definitely after reading this thread - I am NOT convinced at all, but I would love to have someone test it with 2 cooling options: 1. Just let it sit and cool off 2. Spray water or dunk it in water And by test I mean - HowNot2 style. Burn’em + Glue-into rocks + Pull test to breaking So, here’s our conversation, and there’s a bit more after that... Hello Isaac For the last few orders I have been darkening bolts on the stove. It comes out really great color wise and bolts are much less visible on the rock, don't shine in the sun, etc. Just wanted to get your opinion on whether you think this compromises the bolts in any way? (Sorry, the ones pictures are not Waves, since you were out when I placed that order ;-) ----------------------- Eshed, Huh...this is really interesting. I've not come across doing this for climbing bolts before. I'm going to reach out to a few people who hopefully can give me some detailed insight about this. I'll let you know what I find out. ----------------------- Sorry Eshed... I did hear back from one person and then while waiting for the second I let it slip through the cracks. Unfortunately, the first person I asked (who is an engineer at the production shop I use) refused to answer the question, and basically said that I would have to do pull testing with darkened and non-darkened to determine if heating or 'burning' the metal has any impact on the bolts. I have another person in mind I can ask in person, so hopefully I can get a better answer. I will absolutely keep you posted on what I find out. ----------------------- Hi Eshed, I was able to speak with an acquaintance of mine who is an engineer and works on structural engineering projects. He was pretty clear in saying that heating the bolts is not a great idea. He said there is a point at which the metal would become hot enough to weaken it. He didn't really give me a guess at what temperature that would be because it would depend on the metal type and the time under heat and the quickness of being heated and so on, but he said it's definitely possible to cross that threshold from a gas stove burner. Another problem he mentioned is that there would be a lot of variation in the degree of heat between each bolt that you set on the burner. In general. He said it's just not a good idea. As a counterexample he said this would essentially be like the process of "bluing" metal, like in some cookware and firearm barrels. He said that that is a very well understood and highly technical process that manufacturers undertake to ensure there isn't any damage costs in the metal. So.... From all the information I've been able to gather about this, it sounds like this might just not be the best thing to do. Sorry I couldn't give you more positive or even more detailed information, but that's about all I've been able to find out so far. Isaac ----------------------- Isacc, Thank you for looking into this more. While his answer is very vague, it give an ides of what happens if you heat it on the stove. I will try to investigate this more, now that I know his reasoning. Eshed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As mentioned, I am still not convinced it’s an issue. However, due to his answer, I kept looking into other options. And found the following from the Gun / weapons industry: Bluing stainless steel can be challenging due to its corrosion-resistant properties. Options include using chemical bluing agents like Brownells Oxynate 84 or applying coatings such as Cerakote or Duracoat for a similar appearance. Challenges of Bluing Stainless Steel Bluing stainless steel is difficult because of its inherent corrosion resistance. Traditional bluing methods that work on carbon steel may not be effective on stainless steel. Options for Bluing Stainless Steel Chemical Bluing Agents:
Coating Alternatives:
Summary of Options: Method Description Durability Application Difficulty Brownells Oxynate 84 Chemical bluing agent for stainless steel Moderate Moderate Cerakote Ceramic coating, requires heat to cure High Moderate Duracoat Spray-on finish, easy to apply High Easy Looking at the Duracoat website (Called, closed, will try another day earlier), I found that:
Anyone here familiar with any of these materials? Tried and tested these? * I think limiting the amount of shininess on rocks disturbs nature less, but also will help with access issues, land managers and owners, etc. Please share anything you can about this. Thank you |
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It sounds like from your conversation Isaac doesn’t know and gave you the generic “I’m not sure, best to not do it.” Jim Titt seems to have a much broader understanding of metallurgy and seems to think it’s fine from a strength stand point. He’s also an ocean away and perhaps not as worried about liability. I’d be less worried about strength loss and more worried about whether the corrosion performance has been improved or hindered, while the passive layer is made thicker, this doesn’t always translate to better corrosion resistance. Maybe get someone like David Reeves to do a salt spray test or similar on some samples. It’s worth mentioning that the UIAA do not allow paint or other coatings to be added to SS bolts. While it may not be a problem in most situations, there is obviously a reason why they stipulate this for manufacturers that want to meet UIAA standards. |
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It’s not an issue. 304 stainless steel is austenitic. It blues at like 550 to 600 degrees which isn’t hot enough to alter its structural strength. This has already been discussed on this thread and others quite extensively. However, I do think it alters its corrosion resistance quite significantly. There’s a reason no one blues stainless rifle barrels. |
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Blueing steel and heat tinting stainless steel are different processes, with steel you are converting ferric oxide (normal red rust) into magnesite, stainless steel you are thickening the chromium oxide layer. Here is Heat Treat Today on the subject: "The Science Behind Heat Tint Colors When stainless steel is exposed to an air atmosphere, or a high dew point moisture-laden atmosphere during heating or cooling, its surface changes color; that is, a thin oxide layer forms on the surface (Figure 1). This heat tint color (aka temper color) is caused by a progressive thickening of the surface oxide layer. As most of us know, an invisible (aka passive) layer occurs naturally on stainless steels. It is extremely thin, typically in the order of 1 to 3 nanometers (3.93 x 10⁻⁸ to 1.18 x 10⁻⁷ inches) thick. Upon exposure to air during heating or holding at temperature, this oxide layer grows in thickness. When it is approximately 20–30 nanometers (7.87 x 10⁻⁷ inches) thick, it starts to become visible to the human eye as a light-yellow or straw yellow color tint. As the oxide layer becomes even thicker it transitions from almost transparent to a variety of different colors (e.g., bronze, peacock, blue). As the oxide layer thickness increases from 20 nm to roughly 50–100 nm (1.97 x 10⁻⁶ to 3.94 x 10⁻⁶ inches), the colors deepen changing to a golden yellow, to a deep straw, to a bronze or golden brown, to peacock (a purplish-blue), to full blue, then light gray, and finally dark gray. Above 100 nm (3.94 x 10⁻⁶ inches,) up to approximately 850 nm (3.35 x 10⁻⁵ inches) the tint transitions from dark blue/gray to black. Such shallow oxides are known to enhance corrosion resistance on various stainless steels." The European standard prohibits painting or coating for two reasons. A damaged coating can trap moisture underneath causing corrosion. A coating prevents any corrosion or other damage/cracking being seen. |
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Thanks Jim. Of course some one will chime in with an opposing view. I have been tinting SS hardware for a while now and believe it is the best method for reducing the shine without negatively impacting corrosion resistance. No special equipment needed. |
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Figured I’d ask here, as I try to do in every thread about heat tinting hardware - has anyone found a relatively meaningful way to do so in bulk? Can I just broil a batch of bolts in my oven for a period of time to achieve this? |
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I just hang them up and torch bottom to top. Link hangers with quick links. |
