New and experienced climbers over 50 #30

Li Huwrote:

CRG is a little bit softer than Rock Spot as I recall?

Can't comment on that comparison because I have never visited Rock Spot.

There are significant differences even among the several CRG gyms here in MA and CT (let alone RI, NY, FL, etc).
I would say for lead routes, figure up to +/- half a number grade which means up to 1 number grade between hardest and easiest for .7 thru .11+/.12-
There is ongoing effort to consolidate and make more consistent but it remains a work in progress. I actually do not mind the tougher grades as long as the routes are well set.

The MA locals can agree that CRG Cambridge is the premier and toughest bouldering gym ; with emphasis on power and momentum IMO. The crew does a great job in turning the problems over at a high frequency. It is where I train and work on my dual weaknesses of power and momentum. Just got to be careful about the landings on the newer, harder mats!

S. Neohwrote:

I only belay by PBUS technique when forced and under surveillance.  LOL! 

I've taken so many TR and lead tests at so many gyms over the years that I'm not nervous about not passing them, and I can easily switch to PBUS if I need to.  That said, I keep my eyes open for signs that the tester is a gym employee vs. an actual climber with outside experience, because that can make a difference as to how wierd the tester might be.  If you look, it's pretty easy to spot the signs of someone who gets outside.  I go to the person who looks like a climber and casually lay my gym harness on the desk, as I tell them I'm new/visiting and need to take a belay test.

The easiest gym test I ever took was in Eugene Oregon, where the owner happened to be attending the front desk. He asked me how many years I'd been climbing, if I climbed outside and where I typically climbed, and after answering, he said to me "you don't need to take a belay test". My well-traveled friends say it's pretty uncommon to have belay tests in most European gyms.

Al and Soon will appreciate this story - The first time I was ever to climb at a CRG was in Hadley.  I walked in and looked for the right person to ask about the belay test, as per my method, and walked up to a young woman with signs of weathering on her face and the type of forearm muscle you get when you climb a lot. I did my schtick with the harness but I needn't have bothered.  As I finish, Wayne walks up and says to her in a very authoritative voice "This is my friend Phyl, and she's a famous climber from California". I try to keep a look of astonishment off my face, and I say to her, that is not even remotely true.  But I think she has been impressed by Wayne vouching for me because the test was very casual.

Li Huwrote:

Not 100% sure how a non-PBUS method works any better? 

The point is that there are non-PBUS methods that work every bit as well. Somehow, generations of climbers have protected their partners just fine with pre-PBUS methods, much to the consternation and horror of ‘modern’ climbers.

phylp phylpwrote:

I've taken so many TR and lead tests at so many gyms over the years that I'm not nervous about not passing them, and I can easily switch to PBUS if I need to.  That said, I keep my eyes open for signs that the tester is a gym employee vs. an actual climber with outside experience, because that can make a difference as to how wierd the tester might be.  If you look, it's pretty easy to spot the signs of someone who gets outside.  I go to the person who looks like a climber and casually lay my gym harness on the desk, as I tell them I'm new/visiting and need to take a belay test.

The easiest gym test I ever took was in Eugene Oregon, where the owner happened to be attending the front desk. He asked me how many years I'd been climbing, if I climbed outside and where I typically climbed, and after answering, he said to me "you don't need to take a belay test". My well-traveled friends say it's pretty uncommon to have belay tests in most European gyms.

Al and Soon will appreciate this story - The first time I was ever to climb at a CRG was in Hadley.  I walked in and looked for the right person to ask about the belay test, as per my method, and walked up to a young woman with signs of weathering on her face and the type of forearm muscle you get when you climb a lot. I did my schtick with the harness but I needn't have bothered.  As I finish, Wayne walks up and says to her in a very authoritative voice "This is my friend Phyl, and she's a famous climber from California". I try to keep a look of astonishment off my face, and I say to her, that is not even remotely true.  But I think she has been impressed by Wayne vouching for me because the test was very casual.

I have a comparable anecdote. Many years ago I attended an early Access Fund board meeting in Boulder. During a break a few of us went to what was then the only climbing gym in Boulder (Boulder Rock Club?). The first 2 people of our  group to take the belay test, both extremely competent and highly experienced climbers, failed it---forget, or didn't understand, what they allegedly did wrong. Fortunately, before the rest of us were similarly 'put in our place', the manager/owner saw what was happening, came over and 'grandfathered' us all 'in' without any further testing. I don't recall anyone being dropped by their belayer during the ensuing session!!!

Alan Rubinwrote:

I have a comparable anecdote. Many years ago I attended an early Access Fund board meeting in Boulder. During a break a few of us went to what was then the only climbing gym in Boulder (Boulder Rock Club?). The first 2 people of our  group to take the belay test, both extremely competent and highly experienced climbers, failed it---forget, or didn't understand, what they allegedly did wrong. Fortunately, before the rest of us were similarly 'put in our place', the manager/owner saw what was happening, came over and 'grandfathered' us all 'in' without any further testing. I don't recall anyone being dropped by their belayer during the ensuing session!!!

Probably the BRC. Before them there was only CATS. I don't remember if CATS even did belay tests.

The BRC must have the easiest belay test of all. Always the same wall, but the routes vary -- usually around 5.8. And ATCs are fine.

Lori, Brandt, Jay and Guy

Check this video out on the first guide bood to Joshua Tree National Monument by John Wolfe. You will find it pretty interesting. Also read the comments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp7OFOQsz8U&t=951s

John

Oldtradguywrote:

Lori, Brandt, Jay and Guy

Check this video out on the first guide bood to Joshua Tree National Monument by John Wolfe. You will find it pretty interesting. Also read the comments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp7OFOQsz8U&t=951s

John

Nice!

Agree, with the Hidden Valley comments.  

apogee wrote:

The point is that there are non-PBUS methods that work every bit as well. Somehow, generations of climbers have protected their partners just fine with pre-PBUS methods, much to the consternation and horror of ‘modern’ climbers.

My point is once you’ve learnt it to pass a belay test, there’s no reason not to use it in the gym or otherwise.

If someone prefers yet another safe method of belay, I’ll learn and use that method as well.

Thanks John. That red guidebook by Wolfe was my first JT guidebook. Serious climber that I was though, I eventually undid the two screws holding the book together, and took out all the non-route, made up story parts and threw them away so the book would be less heavy. Back then, we walked everywhere from hidden valley, so weight mattered.

phylp phylpwrote:

Al and Soon will appreciate this story - The first time I was ever to climb at a CRG was in Hadley.  I walked in and looked for the right person to ask about the belay test, as per my method, and walked up to a young woman with signs of weathering on her face and the type of forearm muscle you get when you climb a lot. I did my schtick with the harness but I needn't have bothered.  As I finish, Wayne walks up and says to her in a very authoritative voice "This is my friend Phyl, and she's a famous climber from California". I try to keep a look of astonishment off my face, and I say to her, that is not even remotely true.  But I think she has been impressed by Wayne vouching for me because the test was very casual.

Indeed.  The famous Phylp!  You got to hand it to Wayne!!

I only have three "belay" cards; CRG, Metrorock (grandfathered in), and Movement SF.
None on my harness.  Maybe that is why I still get called out once in a while at the random CRG.  LOL.

What was not made clear by the narrator of the video is that while The Desert Rats were certainly responsible for many early routes, there were others who, not being part of that group, went unmentioned in the Wolfe books.

Brandt Allenwrote:

What was not made clear by the narrator of the video is that while The Desert Rats were certainly responsible for many early routes, there were others who, not being part of that group, went unmentioned in the Wolfe books.

Wolfe's guidebook was how I first became acquainted with J.T. and the only book available at the time of my first visits there. I enjoyed its idiosyncrasies!!!!

Brant, do you know if those omissions were purposeful, or more the result of the fact that, at the time, it was considered a 'backwater' and that there was little communication between the various groups that would be climbing there occasionally---some of whom probably didn't even consider their routes sufficiently 'important' to claim as first ascents?

My impression, just from hearing from others, is that Wolfe's book was understandably a record of what he was familiar with, which would naturally be his circle of friends. I would think that a lack of communication between the Rats and others would influence the content of the guidebook. I can't say if JT being considered an unimportant climbing area by some had anything to do with it.

I'm not really the one the answer these questions. It would be interesting to hear from Randy Vogel, Bob Gaines, and others who are far more knowledgeable than me.

Li Huwrote:

Unless your hand fits a crack perfectly, face climbing techniques are much easier when you have the strength.

First of all this is patently false. With good crack technique, off sizes can become dramatically easier, and may require very little strength, depending on the climb. And secondly, even in cases where it does hold true, this is poor advice for anyone who might wish to develop crack technique beyond that needed for 5.10- routes.  Worse yet, it's an awful habit to get into for anyone who might wish to climb actual rocks, which, sadly, are left to fester without those marvelous route setters sprinkling holds like fairy dust around the cracks. 

Cheers!

GO

P.S. My moniker was Cracklover in one of the other, (now sadly deceased) climbing forums. So you can imagine I have my own prejudices on the matter.

GabeOwrote:

First of all this is patently false. With good crack technique, off sizes can become dramatically easier, and may require very little strength, depending on the climb. And secondly, even in cases where it does hold true, this is poor advice for anyone who might wish to develop crack technique beyond that needed for 5.10- routes.  Worse yet, it's an awful habit to get into for anyone who might wish to climb actual rocks, which, sadly, are left to fester without those marvelous route setters sprinkling holds like fairy dust around the cracks. 

Cheers!

GO

P.S. My moniker was Cracklover in one of the other, (now sadly deceased) climbing forums. So you can imagine I have my own prejudices on the matter.

Thank you for stating this overtly, Gabe. Welcome shade and a cool breeze from the buggy, high humidity of gym talk.

I don't even know what PBUS is?  My first venture into a gym sometime in the 90s they had gri gris hanging on the top ropes all set to go. They didn't give me a belay test because of who I was and just assumed I knew what I was doing. I had never used a gri gris... I felt a bit stupid and had to ask them how it works.. 

Instructions found on REI website -

PBUS (Pull, Brake, Under, Slide) Technique

When you're belaying a top-rope climber, most of your time is spent taking in slack as the person climbs. The PBUS method is a simple, effective way to do this:

• Pull: Pull your guide hand downward while also lifting the firmly gripped brake rope out and up. This takes in slack as your partner climbs.
• Brake: When the guide hand nears the belay device, flip the brake rope back down to lock the rope in the device.
• Under: Move the guide hand to the brake rope, placing it underneath the brake hand. Grip the rope firmly to create a new temporary brake hand.
• Slide: Loosen the grip, but don't unwrap the fingers of your original brake hand. Slide it up to its original position, six inches below the belay device, and grip the rope firmly.
• Repeat: Move your guide hand back to its original position and you're ready to go again. Generally, short quick PBUS sequences work best.

Note: Only for belaying TR climber.  Since I often look to do all-lead sessions with my gym partners, I am 'exempted' from this technique most of the time.  I belay quite similarly for TR and lead using the tube method with a Gri-Gri.  I figured consistency and repeatability will pay off if I stick to just one way of belaying for both types of climbing, 

is the the dumb ass thing I always see people do when they pull the brake hand up and pinch that strand to the strand above the  belay device? every time I see that crap I cringe... 

I saw an older guy in Massachusetts using a tube and he kept both hands 2 feet above the device the whole time. He was warned about this and became defiant,  he said this was the way

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

is the the dumb ass thing I always see people do when they pull the brake hand up and pinch that strand to the strand above the  belay device? every time I see that crap I cringe... 

I do not think so, Nick.  I have seen the same.  Not sure how that ever got started.

And, MM, I am not that old guy from MA.  Thank Gawd.

GabeOwrote:

First of all this is patently false. With good crack technique, off sizes can become dramatically easier, and may require very little strength, depending on the climb. And secondly, even in cases where it does hold true, this is poor advice for anyone who might wish to develop crack technique beyond that needed for 5.10- routes.  Worse yet, it's an awful habit to get into for anyone who might wish to climb actual rocks, which, sadly, are left to fester without those marvelous route setters sprinkling holds like fairy dust around the cracks. 

Cheers!

GO

P.S. My moniker was Cracklover in one of the other, (now sadly deceased) climbing forums. So you can imagine I have my own prejudices on the matter.

You are more than welcome to climb however you feel comfortable. In fact, you should.