Photos of BEAUTIFUL HARDWARE pt2

TThurman wrote:

This is a complicated science, with plenty of nuances. I hope someone with more knowledge than me chimes in.

I appreciate the concern for safety.  

Jim Titt is "someone with more knowledge", as he is one of the main bolt manufacturers in the industry.  I would have also been asking for more specifics if he wasn't the one giving some guidance on this.

Heating with a gas burner and letting it air cool (as he described) sounds straight forward enough!

Alex Fletcher wrote:

i think we need the 'ugly hardware' thread for that one ;-)

Jim Day wrote:

I appreciate the concern for safety.  

Jim Titt is "someone with more knowledge", as he is one of the main bolt manufacturers in the industry.  I would have also been asking for more specifics if he wasn't the one giving some guidance on this.

Heating with a gas burner and letting it air cool (as he described) sounds straight forward enough!

Jim is a damn treasure.
Some might even say he provides Tittilating information....

You got anything better?

That second pic made me lol in real life

Anchor from today’s new multipitch

beauty and the beast - stainless hardware with webbing anchor.  the sling is ostensibly 16 years old, south facing, lots of sun.

interestingly, when i got to the anchor the blue marker threads were still attached continuously.  also note how they are still blue, while the rest of the sling is bleached into oblivion...

not mine, but a beauty nonetheless...

old5ten wrote:

not mine, but a beauty nonetheless...

Beaut! Those are some pretty and expensive carabiners....a clip to remember!

Please ignore the shackles. These were installed as part of a practice/learning station for cleaning anchors.

Mr Rogers wrote:

Beaut! Those are some pretty and expensive carabiners....a clip to remember!

agreed!  i for one really appreciate when someone invests money, thought, time, effort, etc. to do things right.  a lot of bolting/rebolting/retrobolting jobs these days are done cheaply, quickly, and overall poorly...

Alex Fletcher wrote:

Here is what I could find in my photo roll. The second one needs replacement…..

You got anything better?

This is a goddamn treasure, plenty redundant and safe.  It would be a travesty to “upgrade” that beautiful disaster.

Mr Rogers wrote:

This is another reason the captive eye biner on a lower bolt of an offset anchor and the horns up top is useful. You get to the anchor and get the biner clipped. Everyone knows how to clip a biner, especially if pumping out....then you can just take or now relax and thread the horns without the pressure of falling to your last pro. Also installer doesn't have to get the spacing to land where that giant QL works. Allows you to better put the bolts where the rock dictates, not where the hardware does. With that set up you're locked into a certain circumference of placement, or ya gotta start adding chain or more links if ya need to put it beyond that range.
Another thing I notice is if you do use glue ins for the bolts, replacing the big ass QL will be impossible without chopping something in the system and you'll never get the same QL on again... not that you should have to replace that thing, but it really makes that a PITA if ya gotta. Just in total, less serviceable than other options. 

Thanks for all the feedback folks! I agree that ramshorns are a rare sighting round these parts of the world and can be a pain in the ass to clip quickly... I was considering putting a practice anchor at the base of the crag - but don't love the idea of more bolts and hardware at a somewhat remote crag. 

I am leaning more towards this style of offset anchor mentioned by Mr. Rogers. I don't have any captive carabiners - but plenty of Mussys with smaller quicklinks!

This is my best glue-in yet. I smoothed out the glue and threw rock dust on it:

versus the same but it got moldy (?):

Nathan P wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback folks! I agree that ramshorns are a rare sighting round these parts of the world and can be a pain in the ass to clip quickly... I was considering putting a practice anchor at the base of the crag - but don't love the idea of more bolts and hardware at a somewhat remote crag. 

I am leaning more towards this style of offset anchor mentioned by Mr. Rogers. I don't have any captive carabiners - but plenty of Mussys with smaller quicklinks!

This looks like a less than ideal setup, it's not preferred to have the rope sitting above a mussy and this type of setup confuses people wanting to set quickdraws for an anchor. I'd be more psyched on horizontal anchors or vertically offset with a chain bringing the top bolt to the level of the bottom bolt. I'd also be more psyched on just having 2 mussies, or 2 rams horns, or the vertical offset and chain with 1 mussy through both similar to the setup mike bond posted. There's lots of beautiful setups on here, no need to reinvent the wheel, go with something people are familiar with, that's easy to use, redundant, and ends up with the masterpoint at a single location.

DrRockso RRG wrote:

This looks like a less than ideal setup, it's not preferred to have the rope sitting above a mussy and this type of setup confuses people wanting to set quickdraws for an anchor. I'd be more psyched on horizontal anchors or vertically offset with a chain bringing the top bolt to the level of the bottom bolt. I'd also be more psyched on just having 2 mussies, or 2 rams horns, or the vertical offset and chain with 1 mussy through both similar to the setup mike bond posted. There's lots of beautiful setups on here, no need to reinvent the wheel, go with something people are familiar with, that's easy to use, redundant, and ends up with the masterpoint at a single location.

Agree to disagree. =)
Kinda agree with the mussy not being ideal in the lower position for the known back clipping style failure. I use captive eye biners.
Where I have put them in we specifically say it all good to TR through the horns as we are happy to replace the horns when worn. Makes for incredibly efficient climbing for all who enjoy the routes I have put them on and I have yet to have to replace any horns, although to be quite fair the crags I have had hands in dont exactly see owens river gorge levels of humans.

Some nice things:
It only has 1 wear component, still is truly redundant, is breeze to replace the horns when worn, is cost effective compared to other set ups, allows more freedom to let the rock dictate bolt placement, I think it looks clean.....blah blah personal preference ad nauseam.

The folks getting flabbergasted by an offset anchor and what to do is kinda a nothing burger to me. Clip the draws under the gear and just clip like normal(one locking draw to be extra proper)....yes only one draw will take the load and thats definitely okay. A 6"-10" drop if somehow the upper bolt failed or horn came unthreaded really isn't something to worry about in the real world IMO. Quads, sliding x's, etc all have extension similar if not greater if a bolt fails.
You can also just clip a single draw on the top bolt(or straight through the basket of the horns) and use the lower biner as the back up. One less draw needed.

All that said, I'm stoked on horizontal anchors with 2 mussy hooks, 2 biners, 2 lengths of chain, etc etc.
Really I just want the two bolts that make up the anchor to be good and the rest is merely convenience. I deeply appreciate anyone who puts in anchors with some of the niceties discussed in thread to make things more efficient, safer when transitioning, etc etc.

Thank you fellow stewards for your work even if you don't agree with my preferred anchor!

Heliodor Jalba wrote:

This is my best glue-in yet. I smoothed out the glue and threw rock dust on it:

versus the same but it got moldy (?):

In the lower picture, I think maybe the glue wasn't mixed properly?
not enough pre-splooge or clogged nozzle?
This is assuming the same glue was used.... Top one looks great.

Mr Rogers wrote:

In the lower picture, I think maybe the glue wasn't mixed properly?
not enough pre-splooge or clogged nozzle?
This is assuming the same glue was used.... Top one looks great.

The glue was fine. What about it makes you think that? The pre and post samples hardened as expected and we pulled on the bolt too.

What you're describing as mold looks like the lighter of the 2 components, in lets use AC100 gold for example, or sika anchor fix.  
But if you verified glue before and after...don't really know what to say.

It does kinda look like some mold or maybe that lichen/moss on the rock by it infiltrated the glue. How long has that install been in the elements?
Was the glue maybe expired?

DrRockso RRG wrote:

Thanks for your feedback! I agree that ole US Americans love their horizontal anchors... But most sport climbs internationally are bolted vertical offset - for really good reasons discussed ad nauseum on this forum.  

it's not preferred to have the rope sitting above a mussy and this type of setup confuses people wanting to set quickdraws for an anchor.

I have tested this set-up and no amount of twisting or flicking the rope caused it to drop back into the mussy and unclip. I suspect it has to do with the ramshorn pushing the righthand rope so far off to the side that it is difficult to twist it back in. But as Mr Rogers said - a regular steel wiregate would be even less likely to clip back into itself. Two quickdraws is no issue for this anchor, just clip the bolts? 100% load distribution on one modern glue-in is no problem. 

There's lots of beautiful setups on here, no need to reinvent the wheel, go with something people are familiar with, that's easy to use, redundant, and ends up with the masterpoint at a single location

Respectfully, I disagree. Having a masterpoint that ends at a single location means that if that one location wears out, the whole anchor fails. Having an offset anchor allows one wear point to be completely redundant from the other - so if one fails, it is backed up by an unworn, full strength back up! The beauty of this offset anchor as opposed to my previously posted, is redundancy in the wear points!