Stop putting X’s in Eldo

As the weather changes many climbers are coming out of the gym and back onto the rocks. This migration of climbers leads to a lot of newer leaders climbing on classic trad routes. With the last few weekends providing good weather I have started to notice a lot of chalked “X’s” appearing on routes. Most of the holds are actually super solid and will not come off as long as you don’t yard directly away from the wall with all your might. I am curious other people’s opinion’s surrounding this topic. Eldo is a traditional area with lots of choss. A major part of trad climbing is learning how to decipher the good rock from the bad. I find these X’s to be an eyesore and detract heavily from the overall experience. I am curious what other people think about this? 

First, if we X-ed everything loose in Eldo the whole area would look like a very one-sided game of tic-tac-toe. (In fact, some climbs already do -- and as Tim points out, that's a major problem.) Second, IMHO, sometimes and very rarely, a judiciously placed X can help everyone have a better day. Seems like there are three situations I most often see people making X's:

1. A guide X-ing a hold that inexperienced clients would "yard directly away from the wall with all [their] might." OPINION: Yes to the X if it's truly a safety concern for clients or those below. (Though I know even a few good friends who will disagree with me on this). But please stop making tick marks on good holds to show beta. The next person to lead the route might not want the experience cheapened by finding the puzzle already solved for them.

2. An inexperienced leader X-ing a hold that wiggles a bit as a way to impress followers with their knowledge and safety skills. OPINION: No to the X. This is an "ego X." This is how we end up with a sea of X's on the standard holds used to climb classic routes. Become one with the bomber choss.

3. An experienced leader X-ing a bad hold that could honestly sucker someone into grabbing it. OPINION: It depends. Most times I wouldn't mind if a follower pulls off a hold and falls. So what if they rip off a hold, fall a few feet of rope stretch, and learn something from it? But with five parties below on Yellow Spur, I'd rather X a truly dangerous block than have my follower or the next parties pull off a chunk that kills someone. As for X-ing a hold to keep the next leader from grabbing it and taking a fall...it would have to be a really bad fall and a really tempting, certain-to-rip booby-trapped hold. 

Busy park. A few X's might save a life at the expense of the occasional eyesore.

They're often there to flag potentially dodgy spots, especially for the newbies venturing from gym to crag.

Gumbies will X anything and everything. You should see North Chimney on Castleton...every block in there has an X...

Best to knock on the offending X and decide for yourself. 

Joseph Hallwrote:

They're often there to flag potentially dodgy spots, especially for the newbies venturing from gym to crag.

There may be excessive X's for sure. But more to this point, i think i does spark the thought process of *inspecting* your holds and gear placements and helping the newer leaders to be cognizant of this and think through their placements or what they will yard on.

I was recently on a climb where somebody presumably projecting this route put an X on every hold they simply didn't like, accompanied of course by a big ol' tick on every feature they thought helped them out. I can't tell you how much harder it made it to read/commit to the wall properly.

Jonathon Bwrote:

There may be excessive X's for sure. But more to this point, i think i does spark the thought process of *inspecting* your holds and gear placements and helping the newer leaders to be cognizant of this and think through their placements or what they will yard on.

Yeah, maybe, but Eldo is not a gym. 

Brad Whitewrote:

Yeah, maybe, but Eldo is not a gym. 

you are correct. However, its inevitable to get out of the gym at some point for most, and eldo being so notorious in the region; people will go there before you may think they are 'ready' for it. Don't read me wrong, i hate excessive X's and tick marks in general, but most people won't ever see them from the ground anyways so i think a few here and there can help that thought process for the aspiring leader. *edit / added thought: if you're really not into them, take the initiative to carry a brush and brush it off as you pass it

Hey Tim, 

Curious what routes you noticed this on? 

Cheers

have u tried looking behind the X’s Tim? maybe some hidden gold could be found…

IMO, an "X' should only be applied to loose death flakes that move or touch when shifted. If you are trad climbing, especially in a place like Eldo, no need to mark every loose hold. Just be cautious. Try to follow LNT practices.

x-cellent

Jonathon Bwrote:

you are correct. However, its inevitable to get out of the gym at some point for most, and eldo being so notorious in the region; people will go there before you may think they are 'ready' for it. Don't read me wrong, i hate excessive X's and tick marks in general, but most people won't ever see them from the ground anyways so i think a few here and there can help that thought process for the aspiring leader. *edit / added thought: if you're really not into them, take the initiative to carry a brush and brush it off as you pass it

It's one thing to put an x on a hold or block that is likely to break off. But putting tick marks on rock for an aspiring leader to learn to lead in Eldo is unacceptable (in my opinion). Go to Sport Park if you need to do that.

For me, it's got nothing to do with whether those marks are visible from the ground or not. It has to do with giving Eldo the respect that a sacred place should have. 

crap. all these years i thought "X" meant where you should place your pro. guess i've been doing it wrong all along.

please everyone bring a nylon brush and water on ever pitch and scrub and wash off every X 

eldo is for experts only

ygd

Haley Youngwrote:

Hey Tim, 

Curious what routes you noticed this on? 

Cheers

Haley, I noticed them mainly on Wind Ridge. Several other routes on wind tower also had a few. 

I vote for all circular arguments on MP to be italicized and bolded for quick reference entertainment value.

One more thing: super easy solution Brush One can simply brush ticks they deem annoying and still continue to move on with their day. Gum is going to gumby, and that's okay; it's way worse when someone complains on the internet about something they can simply fix themselves since it bothers them so much, and you're going to get super strong lock-off strength saving the future of eldo from invasive chalk species. Ticks and x's annoy the hell out of me too, so I simply brush and continue on, typically cursing who did it but what I'm really doing is acknowledging to myself that I'm not above the confines of the ego. Also, be sure to brush any chalk you left behind after you send it. It will require you to climb everything twice and once without chalk, but that's cool because climbing is cool, and climbing without chalk is even cooler. 

"One more thing: super easy solution Brush One can simply brush ticks they deem annoying and still continue to move on with their day. Gum is going to gumby, and that's okay; it's way worse when someone complains on the internet about something they can simply fix themselves since it bothers them so much, and you're going to get super strong lock-off strength saving the future of eldo from invasive chalk species. Ticks and x's annoy the hell out of me too, so I simply brush and continue on, typically cursing who did it but what I'm really doing is acknowledging to myself that I'm not above the confines of the ego. Also, be sure to brush any chalk you left behind after you send it. It will require you to climb everything twice and once without chalk, but that's cool because climbing is cool, and climbing without chalk is even cooler."

There you go Pasquale. I italicized and bolded your post for quick reference and entertainment value.

Pasquale Verrastrowrote:

One more thing: super easy solution Brush One can simply brush ticks they deem annoying and still continue to move on with their day. Gum is going to gumby, and that's okay; it's way worse when someone complains on the internet about something they can simply fix themselves since it bothers them so much, and you're going to get super strong lock-off strength saving the future of eldo from invasive chalk species. Ticks and x's annoy the hell out of me too, so I simply brush and continue on, typically cursing who did it but what I'm really doing is acknowledging to myself that I'm not above the confines of the ego. Also, be sure to brush any chalk you left behind after you send it. It will require you to climb everything twice and once without chalk, but that's cool because climbing is cool, and climbing without chalk is even cooler. 

Very ignorant but you are from GJ so not surprised.