Is Decking Bad?

OP is a weird flex.

Better story: https://jamesclucas.blogspot.com/2010/06/dirtbag-diaries-yosemites-next-top-idol.html 

Well, you are literally back stepping on the ground.

Mark Pilatewrote:

SMH….

Apologies…haven’t been keeping up with the daytime MP entertainment. 

To the OP, I have decked once and 'soft decked' lol once.

I 'soft decked' on a single-pitch aid climb rated A3.  I was a fairly new climber.  While top-stepping on a sketchy hook it blew.  The knifeblade below it blew.  I fell through some tree branches, got flipped upside down and was caught just as my forearms slapped the ground.  Another foot lower it would have been my head.  I got very lucky.  Realized hard aid with groundfall potential is dumb and never did it again.

Second time cratered from 15' while doing the 12a direct start to a sport route.  I was very lucky to land on my belayer and I was not injured.  Realized risking bad groundfalls instead of stick clipping is dumb and started using stick clips for particularly dangerous climbs.

I was lucky and learned my lessons.  Both these events were over 20 years ago.  You have been even more lucky.  To be blunt, if you don't learn from your mistakes it is quite likely you will die climbing or be horribly injured.

Yes decking is bad-I decked due to a incompetent belayer and lived-My close friend decked due to a mistake and died

This thread is pretty funny. I will venture that the modern headpointing culture in the Gunks is fairly "far out" there and probably leads to way more (serious) decking potential than almost any other trad area in the US (except maybe Eldo?). Jane Fonda features a 12d boulder problem protected by finicky gear with groundfall potential if the gear rips - how many other crags in the country does something like this get multiple lead attempts per year?

Is decking bad as in, does it always lead to injury or only sometimes? The answer is pretty clearly "only sometimes." I have never taken a ground fall leading but have missed pads climbing tall boulders several times. I have walked away or even continued the session but also have sprained my foot twice and broken an ankle once. The injuries all involved rocky landings, incorrect pad placement, risky movement choices, and improperly placed spotters. Except the one time I landed perfectly on a double stack on a flat landing and somehow still rolled/sprained my ankle. There is very clearly an art and a science to mitigating groundfall risk, but there's also an element of luck that I don't think can ever be completely removed.

Is decking bad as in, if you deck you need to seriously reconsider your climbing choices? As mentioned up-thread, the answer is no as long as it's part of your risk calculus. If you are climbing highball boulders then scoping the landing and setting up pads appropriately to handle the fall is absolutely part of the game. I don't see why this shouldn't also be true for legit dangerous headpoints. "You should never deck" is an artifact of mainstream climbing culture where 99% of routes are easily protectable with bomber gear, so taking a ground fall is an indicator of major user error. "Is Decking Bad?" is a less coherent question in the context of dangerous headpoints (or highball boulders) imo.. you assume and accept some nontrivial risk by climbing the route. You can mitigate the risk by wiring the route and gear on TR, but just as I can randomly sprain an ankle landing on 2 pads over a perfect flat landing you can fall off the route and pull all your gear. Of course, it's really really hard to introspect properly and question whether it really was one of those "random" occurences or whether there was some level of irresponsible decision making going on. Sounds like OP has done a fair bit of due diligence thinking about the gear for that fall in particular; for me personally i would like to think that I would never get on the sharp end without having the confidence to send 999 times out of 1000. V5 isn't that hard ;)

^^^ a very intelligent post with meaningful contributions to the topic..... bravo and thank you

I’ve always thought, “I’m willing to put my ankles on the line, but not my life.” As rightly pointed out, it’s not always that simple.

That said, there’s a fair bit of diligence that can be done: getting very specific (lobe by lobe) about placements, bounce testing pieces from many angles, assessing rope dynamics, etc.

Yes.

Costin Anghelwrote:

I think only one of the 19ish people who responded actually said they had relevant experience (i.e. have taken a ground fall) though I'm sure there's some survivorship (or lack of survivorship...) bias at play here. 

Welcome to Mountain Project. Land of the trolls, home of the bored.

I think only one of the 19ish people who responded actually said they had relevant experience (i.e. have taken a ground fall) though I'm sure there's some survivorship (or lack of survivorship...) bias at play here.

Their opinions don't count.  

I think only one of the 19ish people who responded actually said they had relevant experience (i.e. have taken a ground fall) though I'm sure there's some survivorship (or lack of survivorship...) bias at play here.

Not sure when you wrote that but I counted eight decking accounts (I didn't count any of the almost's).  You're right about the extreme bias in the sample.  People who have died, or whose injuries prevent them from climbing, or who could continue but have given up climbing because of the experience, are not here to share their accounts.  So all we have access to here, at best, are folks who have decked and have returned to climbing and are actively involved enough to participate in MP.  That sample will be skewed to the decking ain't all that bad perspective because...it wasn't all that bad for them.

Agree with rgold.  The real bad ones aren’t here to tell their story.   Others may have missed your desire for war stories.  Mine was medium bad —shattered calcaneus and other bones taking me out for the season (it was first rock climb of the year in a springtime wet muddy crack) but no long term ramifications.  I had decked from 40’ (belayer error) so coulda been much worse.  Literally 6” difference either side and the outcome would’ve been much grimmer.  I figured I used up any “freebies” that fate might allow me and have taken care to never deck again….and make sure your belayer knows what they are doing before launching up.  

Costin,

It sounds like the 4 ground falls you've taken are a mix of inexperience (gear ripped, been climbing 6mo), carelessness (slipped on wet spot, solo), bad luck (hold broke), and pushing grades on gear (5.12d with fiddly gear).  Your tick list is super impressive, multiple 5.13 sends on gear (that's low-key crusher status)!  The good news is you're strong, lucky, and seemingly, not making the same types of mistakes over and over.  You've obviously progressed out of your inexperienced phase, and hopefully out of a careless mind set (probably why you asked this question), bad luck is just bad luck (sometimes), and as you're pushing grades, falls are obviously more likely.  I'm assuming you know how to place good gear judging by your reflection on why the gear on Jane Fonda ripped, and the fact that you don't send 5.13 trad routes without taking a ton of falls on gear.

So I guess my only advice would be to do everything you can to mitigate injury as much as possible.  As you get older those falls are going to start hurting a lot more, those injuries are going to take longer to heal, and you don't want to be the 50 year old guy who can hardly walk (or worse).

-Helmet...obviously.

-Consider using a bouldering pad at the start if there's ground fall potential.  I know, the Gunks has some strict ethics, but if the Brits can throw down a pad, you can too ;-) 

-You might also consider climbing on pre-placed gear at the start of the route.  I realize both of these are ethical compromises, so it just depends on what you're personal risk tolerance is.

Also, really do some soul searching for what exactly is YOUR risk tolerance.  I'm assuming your climbing group is also really fucking strong, and equally bold.  Is your current risk tolerance being artificially inflated by peer pressure, internal pressure to "keep up"?  Both would be totally understandable, and expected.  That ego can sneak up on you, if you're not mindful of it.

The fact that you put this question out there, would seem to indicate that you are re-evaluating your current risk tolerance.

Anyway, good luck out there, and be safe(er)!

Kevin Rwrote:

-Consider using a bouldering pad at the start if there's ground fall potential.  I know, the Gunks has some strict ethics, but if the Brits can throw down a pad, you can too ;-) 

-You might also consider climbing on pre-placed gear at the start of the route.  I realize both of these are ethical compromises, so it just depends on what your personal risk tolerance is.

NO ETHICS. ALL MODERN HEADPOINTING TACTICS ARE ON THE TABLE.

but…

NO PINKPOINTING

(Climb however you want, this is my compass)

I actually really like how this thread has progressed. Yes, when I originally posted it was 95% meant to be a troll bait post because I was bored on a slow Thursday... but there's actually been a ton of good discussion!

I’ve always thought, “I’m willing to put my ankles on the line, but not my life.” As rightly pointed out, it’s not always that simple.

This 100%. Honestly I've taken plenty of non-decking falls that were scarier or more injurious than some of the more "mellow" decking experiences I've had... but the most recent fall on Fonda was the first that made me go "oh shit" for one main reason: I had sent that route before, I had taken that exact fall on (almost) the same gear, and in the moment I calculated the risk of the fall to be near 0%. I literally chose to let go of the holds mid crux because I felt my fingers weren't warmed up enough and I didn't want to tweak them trying too hard. Climbing hard trad feels like 90% risk management to me and to have been so far off on my assessment was honestly fairly jarring. 

V5 isn't that hard 

Dude speak for yourself, I still haven't gotten the Boxcar Traverse. I'm convinced it's actually 3 V7s in a V4 trench-coat 

So all we have access to here, at best, are folks who have decked and have returned to climbing and are actively involved enough to participate in MP. 

Indeed, until we find a way to connect MP to an Ouija board I think that's just the state of the union. That being said, I'm pretty pleased with the interaction now! Definitely an improvement from a week ago.

Helmet...obviously.[...] I know, the Gunks has some strict ethics [...]  Is you're current risk tolerance being artificially inflated by peer pressure

1. Always. I shattered mine in the fall on Fonda!
2. I don't believe in ethics. Climbing is a personal thing; as long as you don't ruin the route for others do whatever the hell you want! 
3. I'd say I'm probably one of the more risk-tolerant people in our group, but I have been trying to dial that back. Plenty of concerned friends even in this thread trying to encourage that too I'd say 

Costin Anghelwrote:

Dude speak for yourself, I still haven't gotten the Boxcar Traverse. I'm convinced it's actually 3 V7s in a V4 trench-coat 

Really?  I find that hard to reconcile with the level you're climbing at.  Maybe you haven't tried all that hard?

BITD, the Boxcar Traverse used to be a definitive measure of endurance, and the differences between individuals was substantial. Personally, the absolute best I ever managed was across and back (R to L followed by L to R). Kevin Bein doubled that maybe more, and it seemed that boredom rather than fatigue was the only thing that caused Wunsch to fail. But these heroics from days long gone are eclipsed by a performance I witnessed a few years ago, in which a climber (sorry, no idea of the name) started at the right end, did the low traverse, which is harder, and then continued up the Boxcar Arete (V8?) for the finish. Wowza.

OK I've decked twice and both of them were definitely of the embarrassing variety. 

Once, long ago, I fell on the first slippery move of Laurel. I had a C3 blocking an important pod and it immediately blew. It was my only pro. My ass hit the ground. I was fine. 

The second time I decked was on Birdie Party. I was working a cam into the strange, downward facing V-slot one move off the ground. I said to my partner, "hey I think this is a pretty good piece!" while yanking on it. The piece came out as I pulled on it and I went flying but I basically landed on my feet on the ground! I was fine.

Even though I was unscathed by these experiences I am very afraid of decking and i try to avoid doing it. Although I can't say what I learned, exactly, from my decking experiences, I've (knock on wood) avoided repeat decking for quite a long time. 

I have sent the Boxcar traverse right to left. It was very hard. But I did do it. So I guess I need to go work on Jane Fonda. 

Some professional decking. https://www.facebook.com/reel/960361205319791.

I think the term "decking" should be reserved for something more than a highball boulder problem start with no pro. I'm thinking things like gear ripping, no pro X-rated routes, and, especially, inept belaying.