Oak Creek Canyon Vandalism?

Andy Shoemakerwrote:

Nah, Yury just needs a #triggerwarning anytime they might encounter obviously hyperbolic language like "bringing back tarring and feathering" in reference to petty vandalism.  Which I agree is probably more signalling than than an honest opinion.

 Damn, you got me. im trying to show everyone im a good person because im pointing out the obvious degeneracy of lblack graffiti on perfect water polished sandstone, in a canyon, where you cant get lost. The “trailmarkers” are literally nonsensical. There are only two directions. East or west. Out or in.

Those markers are as useful as a sign with an arrow pointing up, and the word “sky” written on it.

Redacted Redactbergwrote:

 Damn, you got me. im trying to show everyone im a good person because im pointing out the obvious degeneracy of lblack graffiti on perfect water polished sandstone, in a canyon, where you cant get lost. The “trailmarkers” are literally nonsensical. There are only two directions. East or west. Out or in.

Those markers are as useful as a sign with an arrow pointing up, and the word “sky” written on it.

Yeah I 100% agree. This shit is totally unacceptable. A suggestion if we want to be taken seriously by all parties, maybe just make the case without invoking Jim Crow era corporal punishment. Take it or leave it. 

So hypothetically ,a spray paint can shoved up the kooks wazoo is ok to say?

Andy Shoemakerwrote:

Yeah I 100% agree. This shit is totally unacceptable. A suggestion if we want to be taken seriously by all parties, maybe just make the case without invoking Jim Crow era corporal punishment. Take it or leave it. 

I’m gonna need a two page report with sources explaining how this comment is valid, logical, sensical, valuable, and sane.
Actually scratch the “and”. Any element detailed coherently will get you a passing C grade.

Also why did Yurys comment get nixed? Since when is crazy+unpopular not allowed? Seems like an over reach.

Andy Shoemakerwrote:

Yeah I 100% agree. This shit is totally unacceptable. A suggestion if we want to be taken seriously by all parties, maybe just make the case without invoking Jim Crow era corporal punishment. Take it or leave it. 

Hot damn, I didnt know Jim crow happened in the 12th century with King Richard and the crusades!

The gig’s up Andrew Shoemaker: U have never hiked in oak creek canyon or climbed in red rocks, and you’re just an ignorant internet troll out here “invoking” character attacks. First the “signalling” bit, then downplaying the vandalism, and now this historical nonsense….

Redacted Redactbergwrote:

Hot damn, I didnt know Jim crow happened in the 12th century with King Richard and the crusades!

The gig’s up Andrew Shoemaker: U have never hiked in oak creek canyon or climbed in red rocks, and you’re just an ignorant internet troll out here “invoking” character attacks. First the “signalling” bit, then downplaying the vandalism, and now this historical nonsense….

I’m not sure what my multiple trips to RR have to do with this. And I’m not sure about the rest of this comment. Yury was bothered by your language, I pointed out that hyperbole might be the reason and that it probably isnt helping your cause and this means I'm a troll?

Because I accurately tied tarring and feathering to the Jim Crow south? Like just wiki tarring and feathering. It didnt start there, but it did find its end there.

This seems like a classic not my problem. Good luck to you sir.   

Andy Shoemakerwrote:

I’m not sure what my multiple trips to RR have to do with this. And I’m not sure about the rest of this comment. Yury was bothered by your language, I pointed out that hyperbole might be the reason and that it probably isnt helping your cause and this means I'm a troll?

Because I accurately tied tarring and feathering to the Jim Crow south? Like just wiki tarring and feathering. It didnt start there, but it did find its end there.

This seems like a classic not my problem. Good luck to you sir.   

You called it “petty vandalism”, which betrays that you’ve never been to red rocks. Unless you meant to say “petty crime” in which case i’d recommend u pick up a dictionary in addition to some book on medieval and colonial history. I’d say lay off the tik tok education. 

Andy Shoemakerwrote:

Yury was bothered by your language, I pointed out that hyperbole might be the reason and that it probably isnt helping your cause and this means I'm a troll?

Considering that some parks widely use painted blazes I see such outrage as an attempt to be holier than the government.
I was not bothered by outlandish metaphorical comparison.
To me "vandalism" is inflicting a permanent damage, which was not the case in this situation.

Yurywrote:

Considering that some parks widely use painted blazes I see such outrage as an attempt to be holier than the government.
I was not bothered by outlandish metaphorical comparison.
To me "vandalism" is inflicting a permanent damage, which was not the case in this situation.

It doesn’t need to be permanent to be vandalism  I’d say black spray paint falls into willful defacement  

noun

Climb Onwrote:

It doesn’t need to be permanent to be vandalism  I’d say black spray paint falls into willful defacement

It looks like am more tolerant than majority of people who commented on this thread.

The only time when I was irritated by painting was during "Painted Rocks" fad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kindness_Rocks_Project
Following LNT principles I either was brining these "pieces of art" back to a trailhead or throwing them further away into bush.

Yurywrote:

Considering that some parks widely use painted blazes I see such outrage as an attempt to be holier than the government.

Yury, it has already been established in this thread that these splotches are illegal and not at all mandated by the park. And even then, I have no problem in ever asserting that I am holier than the government, or rather that the government is a big pile of useless manure.

It looks like am more tolerant than majority of people who commented on this thread.

Tolerance is a funny word to use. How far does your “tolerance” go? What if every climber and hiker had a rack of grafitti cans they stuck into cracks and sprayed up the climbs and rocks with all sorts of colors? Are you “tolerant” of that? Are you “tolerant” of soup thrown at the mona lisa?

I was not bothered by outlandish metaphorical comparison.

Confirmed: Andy Shoemaker is a troll.

This is heartbreaking.

I've walked in and out of that canyon hundreds of times. I'm struck by its beauty in new ways every single time. 

As Thomas said, it makes my blood boil. I shouldn't have clicked on this forum post. 

Josh Janeswrote:

This is heartbreaking.

I've walked in and out of that canyon hundreds of times. I'm struck by its beauty in new ways every single time. 

As Thomas said, it makes my blood boil. I shouldn't have clicked on this forum post. 

Couldn't agree more. Its like a cross between a japanese rock garden, those polished stones in the smithsonian, and marble sculptures. It is a magical spot. Every time I hike through I can’t help but take pictures of a cool water polished boulder.

Yurywrote:

Considering that some parks widely use painted blazes I see such outrage as an attempt to be holier than the government.
I was not bothered by outlandish metaphorical comparison.
To me "vandalism" is inflicting a permanent damage, which was not the case in this situation.

So someone tags your house, whats it called? Minor irritation? 

Redacted Redactbergwrote:

 black graffiti on perfect water polished sandstone, in a canyon, where you cant get lost. The “trailmarkers” are literally nonsensical. There are only two directions. East or west. Out or in.

Those markers are as useful as a sign with an arrow pointing up, and the word “sky” written on it.

Completely agree.  At one point (haven’t done it for years to know if it still exists) the hike to bridge mountain had spray painted trail markers which were not really necessary but I guess could have kept people from getting lost but it makes no sense in a canyon.

I agree that getting lost in a canyon is like getting lost on a sidewalk: Ultimately there are only two ways you can go. But arguing about whether trail markers in Oak Creek are "logical" or not is a red herring. The fact of the matter is getting lost in the wilderness is OK. Quite wonderful in fact. If you don't like it, guidebooks, GPS tracks, due diligence and research, experienced friends, etc can all minimize or eliminate the possibility. On the other hand, taking your can of spray paint and defacing the wilderness is not OK. The person(s) who did this is in serious need need of a spanking. And 50 hours of community service scrubbing it off the boulders.

We really need to set up some trail cameras or something in Oak Creek and Pine Creek. Or maybe some Raiders of the Lost Ark style booby traps.

Josh Janeswrote:

But arguing about whether trail markers in Oak Creek are "logical" or not is a red herring.

Of course, I just find the Soviet-esque layers of absurdity uniquely appealing. 1) The destruction of aesthetic beauty for practicality, 2) for which the practicality is unnecessarily stupid, and 3) the practicality is executed incompetently at that. In peak absurdity, in the picture i sent you can see three splotches right next to each other on 3 separate boulders.

Its like that joke that the way to deal with mice at the kremlin is to start there a collective farm: half will starve to death, the other half will run away.

Was hiking Turtlehead Peak yesterday and noticed its out there as well in two different colors and going on separate paths. Seems like its not an uncommon occurrence which isn't surprising considering the number of unaware tourists who stumble into Red Rock every year.

The SNCC led a graffiti clean up day today. With the help of about 12 local climbers, we removed approximately 50-75 spray paint dots that began right before solar slab and extended almost to the cut off to Black Orpheus. The SNCC is working up another graffiti clean up day to address the red spray paint dots in Pine Creek that lead to Dark Shadows and CITH. 

Please see my comment further up in the thread to report graffiti you see in red rock and please consider joining us on the next clean up day. 

There are white painted dots all the way up Girl Scout Trail that continue past Guardian pass, into the loop proper, around Ethics Wall is where they fizzle out.