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The first quick draw controversy

Original Post
Ivanchenko Vladimir · · Mountain View, CA · Joined May 2018 · Points: 0

I'm sure that this topic was discussed before, so if you have a link, PLMK. On a multi pitch, when belaying from below, clipping a first quick draw right of the bat allows the climber not to fall on the belayer belay loop. But it can also jam a belaying device if the fall is strong and it usually is in the beginning, when there is little rope in the system. What's the solution? Will only a gri gri be jammed, while an ATC will be OK?

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Ivanchenko Vladimir wrote:

I'm sure that this topic was discussed before, so if you have a link, PLMK. On a multi pitch, when belaying from below, clipping a first quick draw right of the bat allows the climber not to fall on the belayer belay loop. But it can also jam a belaying device if the fall is strong and it usually is in the beginning, when there is little rope in the system. What's the solution? Will only a gri gri be jammed, while an ATC will be OK?

Belay off of your harness.

Cherokee Nunes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 0

He didn't mean hanging the belay device off the anchor. He's still got the device on his belay loop.

Tube-style device should be ok, so long as you don't let go, of course. If its really a concern and there is available protection options, a piece at the feet with a short leash to prevent upward pull, might be called for. 

This is esp. important if there is a small overhang or you're in a pod and risk being pulled into the ceiling, as well.

edit: Brett's advice is a valid alternative as well.

Brett Merlin · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 25

The fixed point lead belay could be really worthwhile solution to consider for this situation. Seek instruction from a real guide to explain it. There is way too much nuance to this technique to explain it on Mountain Project. Best of luck!

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Cherokee Nunes wrote:

He didn't mean hanging the belay device off the anchor. He's still got the device on his belay loop.

Totally missed that.

Trevor Kerber · · Tempe, AZ · Joined Feb 2022 · Points: 10

AlpineSavvy has some good tips: Chariot Belay

Ivanchenko Vladimir · · Mountain View, CA · Joined May 2018 · Points: 0

Thanks, I understand how you can use extra pieces to hold you in place. Another advice I recalled is to belay off the Munter in the anchor for the first quick draw and then switch to gri gri on the belay loop. 

Glowering · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 16

If you're talking bolted anchors and quickdraws, then I just use a quickdraw on the anchor. I think the risk of losing control of the belay or getting slammed against the wall is higher than the risk of a factor two fall on bolts. 

If you're talking trad gear in the anchor it's almost always possible to put in a "Jesus Nut" so the leader would fall on a piece close to the anchor and not onto the anchor.

Ivanchenko Vladimir · · Mountain View, CA · Joined May 2018 · Points: 0
Glowering wrote:

If you're talking bolted anchors and quickdraws, then I just use a quickdraw on the anchor. I think the risk of losing control of the belay or getting slammed against the wall is higher than the risk of a factor two fall on bolts. 

If you're talking trad gear in the anchor it's almost always possible to put in a "Jesus Nut" so the leader would fall on a piece close to the anchor and not onto the anchor.

I think even with a quick draw the fall factor will be close to 2, but at least not all the force will be falling into the belay loop. Though the belay loop is designed for 12 KN or so, it does look scary. 

Serge S · · Seattle, WA · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 688

I think it depends on where a fall is likely and how heavy the belayer is.  If it's the very first move and the belayer is heavy, IMO the fall factor reduction outweighs the risk of defeating the cam.  If the hard move is higher or the belayer is light, maybe better to not clip.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Sport Climbing
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