Bail Beiners and quick links

Kelley Gilleran wrote:

Yet still possible. I've been a couple places.

Outlier examples only reinforce the general commonality of the argument. 

kevin deweese wrote:

Outlier examples only reinforce the general commonality of the argument. 

I guess it depends where you live. The majority of Nor Cal not really an issue

Mike Womack wrote:

In the 10 years or so that I've been climbing, I've bootied about 5 bail biners and 5 bail quicklinks.  

Whaaaa!? I found FOUR today, and probably 10+ in the last 6 months. I've bailed on 2 that I can remember this year. Granted, the  bootied biners weren't all bail biners, some were on nuts, some were forgotten at anchors, etc.

Kelley Gilleran wrote:

I guess it depends where you live. The majority of Nor Cal not really an issue

Especially if you dont mind kicking down loose stuff on other climbers trying to get to some anchors hanging over a ledge.

I'm happy to booty people's quicklinks and recycle them onto new routes I'm putting up. Booty carabiners I have little use for. Unless you're bailing off a super hard or rarely climbed climb leaving a ql is not a problem, it won't rust shut in a couple days/weeks/months before someone stronger than you climbs the route. Don't crank on it, just leave it finger tight to allow easy removal for the next gal. Using a sufficient gauge quicklink, one can easily clip the ql if for some reason there is not enough room in the hanger to clip underneath the ql, simply wait until you are cleaning the route to take it off rather than trying to snag it like a carabiner as you climb it. 5/16" or 3/8" ql's are the preferred size and even the Chinese origin hardware store versions rate out higher than most climbing carabiners.

So there ya go, the unpopular MP opinion. People need to chill and get themselves some of that medical sticky icky if having a quicklink on the 5th bolt of xyz chufffest at rifle boulder gorge canyon ruined their day of climbing. IME 90% of bail links I've come across, come off easily by hand, anyone who is truly worried about being ethical is carrying a crescent wrench and a couple quicklinks to replace worn anchors and tighten up spinners, so getting off the remaining 10% wouldn't be an issue. 

Russ Walling wrote: Seeing a quick link on bolt makes me climb 3 letter grades harder... I get to it and go “wow, some cheap ass could not do these moves...”. Total motivation. Thanks for the stoke!!!

It's the booty that inspires me to climb harder. 

Just wanted to defend the Firefly's use. This thing is pretty damn cool. Used it twice now and it has made me very happy to see it work, so totally worth the Kickstarter fee. Plus, I liked the thought of someone designing a useful product for the rest of us, so I support the dude on that alone. If i was thinking about the need to bail off 20 routes before I got my money's worth, then yeah, it wouldn't have been worth it. But the joy of seeing it work, and the support of a creative mind is why I recommend it. Not to mention, it's totally safe. If you're weighting the rope and draw, there's absolutely no way you could get the top biner to flip out of the hanger. I wouldn't try this to prove I'm right, but I'm 100% it wouldn't be possible.

Quick tip: flake your accessory cord into a small bag, the type that goggles or some glasses come in, and lower with the cord coming out of the bag. Clip the bag to you. Makes everything a lot cleaner and keeps the little cord from flying around everywhere. Also, dont use a wiregate, it doesn't work. The nose gets caught on the hanger. Take an alpine draw with a solid gate and keylock nose with you on climbs to swap out the draw.

Quick links are fine to bail on, but you won't save any money on the ones you should use. The larger ones, made of stainless steel, are easily removed by with even a basic multipurpose tool, and make for a great addition to anchor systems that are wearing out.

Use a carabiner 

When I first started out I made sure to put a quick link on my harness just in case. I’ve never left one because it was immediately apparent to me that it could be cumbersome to others. I’ll use a regular biner every time now. About the only thing I’ve ever used a quicklink for was to add to an anchor that needed it. Quicklinks are great for that. Many anchors seem to mysteriously lose theirs and often need replacing. I guess some people want to get that booty however they can. 

Tapawingo Markey wrote:

Especially if you dont mind kicking down loose stuff on other climbers trying to get to some anchors hanging over a ledge.

Think outside the box

In general, I'd say to leave a biner rather than a quick-link. I'd also vote against going to Home Depot for a quick link. Metolius, Camp, Petzl all make CE climbing rated quick links. It some ways, I'd say going to Home Depot for a quick link is like going to Home Depot for a rope instead of a climbing rope. Home Depot sells many rope that are rated for more than 250 pounds, but wouldn't be safe to climb on!

Thumbs up this post for quick links

Thumbs up this post for bail carabiner. Democracy. 

Al Schiewewrote:

In general, I'd say to leave a biner rather than a quick-link.

The ethic now is biner only, no quick-links.

In a world of near constant gear discounts, I buy a handful of ~$5 ultralight lockers and non lockers every season or two, specifically to leave behind. (Usually in the alpine, but once or twice on a long sport multi.) Not only are they easier for the next party to pull, but they are also lighter and more versatile on my rack. With where pricing is at, I see no reason to have myself or another party finagle with quicklinks.

For a single pitch sport route, I’ll just haul a stick clip up if we can’t make it to the top. Ain’t got no shame in that. 

Chris Cwrote:

In a world of near constant gear discounts, I buy a handful of ~$5 ultralight lockers and non lockers every season or two, specifically to leave behind. 

My booty intake to bail output is always in perfect balance.

But yea otherwise just do this. 

Al Schiewewrote:

In general, I'd say to leave a biner rather than a quick-link. I'd also vote against going to Home Depot for a quick link. Metolius, Camp, Petzl all make CE climbing rated quick links. It some ways, I'd say going to Home Depot for a quick link is like going to Home Depot for a rope instead of a climbing rope. Home Depot sells many rope that are rated for more than 250 pounds, but wouldn't be safe to climb on!

Climbing brands don’t make their own quicklinks, they just certify them and stamp them, and they are all plenty strong. Breaking loads for 8mm quicklinks are 50kn+. 

 If you look at one of these mammut “climbing“ qls closely, you’ll see that manufacturer markings (316) are die punched and the branding and cert marks are laser engraved. They are not even actually metric— the true size is 3/8”.

(They are sometimes cheaper than unbranded versions though, so I have a dozen or so of these left)

drew Awrote:

My booty intake to bail output is always in perfect balance.

Just stick clip past the difficult section or all the way to the anchor.  LNT.  Get the long stick.....