Gunks Classic - Suppers Ready 12a

Looking for some beta to help dial in my training for this route. I am hoping to make a flash attempt in about 5 weeks (Hoping that the closure opens up by then). 

I have seen a few videos of the climb so no on-sight burns. From what I can tell there is about 12 moves of thuggy classic roof climbing (maybe just 5.10) blocked by 2 stopper V3 - V4 moves, that are super well protected. I have been hammering my endurance and moving towards power endurance training with limit outdoor bouldering sessions mixed in to get some hard moves on rock. 

Any advice on the crux moves / overall approach to sending? 

Trevor Joneswrote:

Looking for some beta to help dial in my training for this route. I am hoping to make a flash attempt in about 5 weeks (Hoping that the closure opens up by then). 

I have seen a few videos of the climb so no on-sight burns. From what I can tell there is about 12 moves of thuggy classic roof climbing (maybe just 5.10) blocked by 2 stopper V3 - V4 moves, that are super well protected. I have been hammering my endurance and moving towards power endurance training with limit outdoor bouldering sessions mixed in to get some hard moves on rock. 

Any advice on the crux moves / overall approach to sending? 

When you ask for advice on the crux moves are you asking for beta advice or just advice on approach? Happy to share either. How tall are you? How good at dynamic moves? How small are your fingers? My beta advice would be slightly different depending on your answers. If you need gear beta happy to share that as well.

For overall approach: take your time on the face and really completely rest up before you start the hard climbing. Climb super relaxed once you get into the steeps. I didn't attempt to flash it and did it piece-to-piece a few times to figure out beta before making rp attempts but I think three things could go wrong on a flash attempt:

- it'd be easy to just get the beta wrong on the low crux or the crux at the final roof and just fall. Both are somewhat technical. Since it's a flash not an onsight I'd just spend as much time watching videos as you can and try to make a call on the beta you'd like to attempt. There are a bunch of options at both cruxes.
- if you do make the moves, it's definitely super pumpy when linked up and easy to pump out. Training climbing relaxed will help...there are big jugs to recover on the whole way up as long as you're capable of recovering on big jugs at that angle
- after you make the last crux, I think it'd be easy to miss the last (kinda big) move to the next horizontal, especially when tired

It’s pumpy but there are recovery opportunities depending on how well you can rest in steep terrain.

I’d add some of that training to your overall strategy. 

There are two distinct cruxes, at the first tier and the last. Beta intensive. There is a fairly detailed discussion of the beta in the Gunks Pump movie that Christian circulated a while ago. 

Josh Swrote:

When you ask for advice on the crux moves are you asking for beta advice or just advice on approach? Happy to share either. How tall are you? How good at dynamic moves? How small are your fingers? My beta advice would be slightly different depending on your answers. If you need gear beta happy to share that as well.

For overall approach: take your time on the face and really completely rest up before you start the hard climbing. Climb super relaxed once you get into the steeps. I didn't attempt to flash it and did it piece-to-piece a few times to figure out beta before making rp attempts but I think three things could go wrong on a flash attempt:

- it'd be easy to just get the beta wrong on the low crux or the crux at the final roof and just fall. Both are somewhat technical. Since it's a flash not an onsight I'd just spend as much time watching videos as you can and try to make a call on the beta you'd like to attempt. There are a bunch of options at both cruxes.
- if you do make the moves, it's definitely super pumpy when linked up and easy to pump out. Training climbing relaxed will help...there are big jugs to recover on the whole way up as long as you're capable of recovering on big jugs at that angle
- after you make the last crux, I think it'd be easy to miss the last (kinda big) move to the next horizontal, especially when tired

Josh this is awesome thank you. Cant wait to check out that video you mentioned. 

I'll take specific beta advice, if you are willing! I am about 5'10" and consider myself to be more of an endurance climber. I have pretty phat fingers and would say I am ok at dynamic, very willing to just go for it. 

I think I have the gear pretty sorted in my head, thanks to First Person Beta video and MP comments. 

I'll let Josh or any of the relevant videos provide beta for the moves since I think there are several good alternatives and ultimately you just need to pick what seems like it will work for your style/morpho and stick to it... but I can probably chime in with some decent rest beta:

1. Prior to the first crux, you place the crux gear (two small pieces in a slot, 0.1 and 0.2ish sized) from a fairly strenuous stance. Downclimb after placing it and either go straight down to a good stance, or all the way back down and right into the corner to get a solid shake.

2. Prior to the final lip (where you clip the fixed nuts) you can get a meat hook with your right arm. The inside of your right elbow should be over a "horn" or "mini-ledge" like feature which turns your hips in to the right. Your feet are kind of high in a stem. The position is awkward but you can get a full recovery.

Trevor Joneswrote:

Josh this is awesome thank you. Cant wait to check out that video you mentioned. 

I'll take specific beta advice, if you are willing! I am about 5'10" and consider myself to be more of an endurance climber. I have pretty phat fingers and would say I am ok at dynamic, very willing to just go for it. 

I think I have the gear pretty sorted in my head, thanks to First Person Beta video and MP comments. 

We're pretty different in terms of geometry, so take my advice with a grain of salt (I'm short, small fingers, really jumpy), and both crux 1 and crux 2 have really different beta options (e.g. I do pretty much the opposite beta for every move from what the Shawngunk Pump video talks through). That said, here goes:

The harder climbing starts when you start traversing left away from the corner. Climb relaxed here, find the feet, and then when you get to the stance left before the angle kicks back make sure you have a solid rest stance.

At crux 1: from the stance, you're heading up and right. There's usually a fixed nut in the little horizontal break, and I place a cam a few inches over and put my right hand between the nut and the cam (these can just be on an alpine draw, it doesn't need to be extended if you don't want to extend). Then there's a decent left hand sidepull a bit up, another left-facing sidepull further up, and a little nose. I grab the first lh sidepull, and get my right foot up outside edge in the corner on an obvious foot. From there you can go up either right or left hand. If I'm going up right I just jump off of the left facing sidepull and it's fine. If I'm going left I gaston the second sidepull and can static up to the rail. They're both pretty equal in terms of difficulty. You're reaching up to a great jug rail just a few inches above the lip, and you can either grab directly up or on the right side in the little corner. From here, relax. Gear goes on the right side of the corner kind of right inside of the corner if that makes sense; again it doesn't need an extended draw.

Next move up will probably be easy for you at your height. At my height I have to set my feet and it's a little bit of a hop...I reach up with my left, but again you could reach up with either hand. For shorter folks this can be another crux if they really have to jump.

Now you're on another big jug rail, #3 goes in in front of your face, and does need a fully extended draw. From here you traverse slightly right (I don't go all the way right to the big chalky block, though) and then there's a decent little hold on the bottom left side of the pedestal that's kind of hard to see...you have to fumble around for it. Once I find that, I put a left heel into the rail to the right of the cam and reach up to the top of the pedestal. Again, relax.

There's usually a tiny fixed nut up/right of the pedestal. I back this up a few inches to the right with a tiny cam. These are probably best with a fully extended sling. Now into the top crux at the final roof. Whereas the first two tiers are easier if tall, I think the last roof is way easier if you're smaller...with small fingers I just gaston with the right hand on the little nose, put my left hand in the thin horizontal where the cam and nut are, step around to the right (key! don't stay under the roof and no need to get your heel up on the pedestal), and can easily statically reach up to the horizontal after the roof...feels maybe V2. But if your hand doesn't fit in that horizontal you'll have to do something else...I'd watch the gunks pump video for his beta.

Once you get to that horizontal after the roof, relax. Place an easy piece in the horizontal. Now one more big move. There's a little angled chip you can get your right foot up on to help with the huck. Now place again, and it's probably 5.8 to the top, just take your time.

You guys all rock, pun was initially unintended. This is amazing. I found that video, awesome short film. I have seen it before, but so rad with something to pay a bit more attention to! 

Trevor Joneswrote:

You guys all rock, pun was initially unintended. This is amazing. I found that video, awesome short film. I have seen it before, but so rad with something to pay a bit more attention to! 

Send it! Would be a great flash and it's totally safe for giving a solid, committed flash go, so good luck.

I won't add to the plentiful movement beta you already have on crux 1 especially since I seem to be the only person to use a knee bar.  Crux 2 is straightforward as long as you get the first move right when leaving the jug - a right hand monkey-gripped (rotated in) on the arete, allowing for a left heel hook and then the left hand to get the best part of the thin horizontal.

I think an important decision is whether to place gear immediately after crux 1.  It is strenuous to place and hard to get right. If you are strong enough to try and onsight I would do one more big move up to the #3 horizontal crack.  It will save you a ton of energy and the move is maybe easy 5.10.  Just a big dynamic throw to jugs and easy placement of the #3.  I skipped the gear on my redpoint burns but I knew the moves.

Good luck!  That route is insanely good.  I am smiling just thinking about it.

Eric Dwrote:

I won't add to the plentiful movement beta you already have on crux 1 especially since I seem to be the only person to use a knee bar.  Crux 2 is straightforward as long as you get the first move right when leaving the jug - a right hand monkey-gripped (rotated in) on the arete, allowing for a left heel hook and then the left hand to get the best part of the thin horizontal.

I think an important decision is whether to place gear immediately after crux 1.  It is strenuous to place and hard to get right. If you are strong enough to try and onsight I would do one more big move up to the #3 horizontal crack.  It will save you a ton of energy and the move is maybe easy 5.10.  Just a big dynamic throw to jugs and easy placement of the #3.  I skipped the gear on my redpoint burns but I knew the moves.

Good luck!  That route is insanely good.  I am smiling just thinking about it.

Thanks Eric! Skipping gear post crux one feels like it would be perfectly safe... I've been debating that. I figure this would make for an awesome goal for the year, regardless of how the first burn goes. This thing just has me so fired without having ever touched it. 

The only caveat to skipping the gear after crux 1 is I've personally witnessed one climber (and heard of another) who pulled the crux 1 gear and soft-decked on a ledge. So perhaps consider at least doubling up if you take this approach.

bridgewrote:

The only caveat to skipping the gear after crux 1 is I've personally witnessed one climber (and heard of another) who pulled the crux 1 gear and soft-decked on a ledge. So perhaps consider at least doubling up if you take this approach.

+1. I'd also add that the #3 is a bomber placement but somewhat shallow and with some crumbly rock to the left...I personally wouldn't want just that piece and then a black totem and an old fixed nut 10+ feet below me. But I'm not known for being a bold climber :)

bridgewrote:

The only caveat to skipping the gear after crux 1 is I've personally witnessed one climber (and heard of another) who pulled the crux 1 gear and soft-decked on a ledge. So perhaps consider at least doubling up if you take this approach.

Agreed.  I always doubled up and equalized the crux 1 gear since it is small and not difficult to place.  Then I could skip the next piece with less concern.

The post crux 1 gear places pretty easily and you can get a shake there, it’s a big hold with more than marginal feet, I found.

I agree on doubling up with a black totem too - it’d be a winger if you skip the .3 and then blow the move to the #3. 

chris vultaggiowrote:

The post crux 1 gear places pretty easily and you can get a shake there, it’s a big hold with more than marginal feet, I found.

I agree on doubling up with a black totem too - it’d be a winger if you skip the .3 and then blow the move to the #3. 

I hope everyone is having as much fun as I am talking about this. So black totem backs up the first crux wire, then the call is to place the .3 or skip to just do a big move to jug and place a #3... I have also seen a #4 go next to that to the right of it, not sure if its worth it to bring up the big boy. Is there any way to back up the second crux wire? 

Trevor Joneswrote:

I hope everyone is having as much fun as I am talking about this. So black totem backs up the first crux wire, then the call is to place the .3 or skip to just do a big move to jug and place a #3... I have also seen a #4 go next to that to the right of it, not sure if its worth it to bring up the big boy. Is there any way to back up the second crux wire? 

You can put a 4 to the side of the 3, but the 4 placement is much worse and not worth the hassle imo. The second crux backs up with a red dragonfly a bit to the right in the thin horizontal 

Josh Swrote:

You can put a 4 to the side of the 3, but the 4 placement is much worse and not worth the hassle imo. The second crux backs up with a red dragonfly a bit to the right in the thin horizontal 

Agreed, and the #3 felt pretty solid to me.

The .1 backs up the wire well in crux 2, but careful to not place it where your hand should go. It's a more finicky placement but the further left you get it the more room you have to use the hold. 

I wouldn't place a wire on crux 1 if on-sighting.  It's not obvious and 2 cams will be faster.  

Definitely don't bring a #4.  I skipped the piece after crux 1 and placed 2 #3 next to each other for piece of mind, but that is probably overkill.  Both #3s are very good.

Check back in on this thread after your attempt and let us know how it went!

Eric Dwrote:

I wouldn't place a wire on crux 1 if on-sighting.  It's not obvious and 2 cams will be faster.  

Definitely don't bring a #4.  I skipped the piece after crux 1 and placed 2 #3 next to each other for piece of mind, but that is probably overkill.  Both #3s are very good.

Check back in on this thread after your attempt and let us know how it went!

2 #3s feels good to me! Sometimes I just feel naked not taking the 4… I’m a trad dad at heart.

As soon as this thing opens from the closure I’m going to get on it! cant wait to report back to everyone 

Any of you savages able to get out on Friday morning and climb some fitness routes? Looking for a partner who can meet up in the morning and climb some 5.10s till about 330p