On training for big wall climbing:

But it's very cold outside.  And some of us are starting to get cabin fever. 

Oh geez ... I didn't realize this is the climb.  I imagined some far away Grade VI.  I take back most of what I wrote above.  

I climbed the North Face of the Sentinel in 1983 via the Chouinard-Herbert Route. We climbed it mostly free, with a bit of easy clean aid.  We were both mere 5.10 climbers. We did it in two days, approaching early and climbing 8 pitches to a sloping ledge where we threw a pad underneath us and put on down coats for a shiver bivy. We finished the next day and came down in daylight no problem. 

Forget the sherpas - get yourself a free climbing gun and do it in a couple days like we did.  I don't know if it's a good route or not, but I can tell you Chouinard-Herbert is superb.  

Oh hell no.

There is a video of the route next door on the internet-------that's too much like caving for me: 

Getting Stuck in the Steck Salathe | Committed: Climbing North America's 50 Classics, Ep. 6  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJYUOmme72w

I did the Salathe death pitch 70's style twice, but that was more vertical. 

If I remember correctly, Russ Walling had some SARS bedtime stories about one of those chimneys, 

You need to run it out forever.  And to put it politely, not everyone can get to the end of the pitch.  It might be in here somewhere: fishproducts.com/mbs/MBS.html

On the quality of advice scale, there are two ideas competing for worst:

Hire a Sherpa and get a rope gun. WTAF? I don’t even know how to express my disdain for these ideas. I’m not training so that someone else can climb this route. If I had my druthers, I’d lead every pitch. Although I’d be just as happy to swap leads with an equally motivated partner with a similar skill set as my own. In other words, not a noob, not a professional athlete; somewhere in between.

On the other hand there’s a lot of good advice coming in along the lines of go to the gym, do squats, more weight with fewer reps. They are valuable and I am incorporating some of them into my training plan. Keep those comments coming.

For the people saying I should stop training and just climb more outside, I say you bet and bring it on! Just as soon as this atmospheric river, Pineapple Express, bs stops. After some of the snow melts and the access trails are open again. Oh, and the nearby sport crags have had their recommended 3 days post-rain to dry out.

In the meanwhile, training is going well. It might not be a Baffin Island grade VI winter ice route, but my chosen route is one that is super hard (for me), that I’ve tried and bailed twice, and that will be incredibly fulfilling when I get it in the bag. So please, no hating. And Kevin, do you really have to tell everyone what route I’m planning? Let me have my crack at it OK?

Technique stuff: I ordered Pete’s book and am sure there will be some good stuff in there. Saw some good Mark Hudon videos with some stuff I will definitely incorporate into my systems.

I’m so stoked to have this conversation now in the wet winter. Like many commenters above, I’ve got crazy cabin fever and doing everything I can to get fit for the next season. I could block this thread from taking more comments, but as long as it stays civil and entertaining I’m happy to let it ride.

I would like to hear from both Charles Winstead and Donald Perry:  Why are you guys choosing these not-often-climbed routes with heinous approaches? Why not something a little more mainstream without the bad approach?  The approaches have already defeated you guys, so why go back for further punishment?  Just wondering....

Charles Winstead wrote:

And Kevin, do you really have to tell everyone what route I’m planning? Let me have my crack at it OK?

Routes aren't a zero sum game. It'd be one thing if it was an obscurity that hadn't had a second ascent, but this route ain't that, despite what you initially thought after not knowing the difference between the current select bigwall guidebook vs the current complete bigwall guidebook. 

You'll get your crack at it whether or not anyone else wanders up there to taste the sweet sandbag pitches. 

And ptpp is right (ugh I think I just threw up in my mouth after typing that) there's plenty of obscurities closer to the road. Check out Middle Brother, The Folly Left: a line with nailing aid that will likely go clean and if it has, it hasn't been reported afaik. 

"Why are you guys choosing these not-often-climbed routes with heinous approaches? "

Because they are heinous.  If I can just get my gear to be base, I can call it a day and you'd all agree that I essentially already did the route,  It's barely A3.

I would not agree for a second.

The summit counts.

Do you have any idea - ANY idea?! - how many Big Wall Theorists I have seen hike their crap to the beginning of a wall, and then bail.  HUNDREDS!!!

Peter Zabrok wrote:

I would like to hear from both Charles Winstead and Donald Perry:  Why are you guys choosing these not-often-climbed routes with heinous approaches? Why not something a little more mainstream without the bad approach?  The approaches have already defeated you guys, so why go back for further punishment?  Just wondering....

The choice of route was not originally too deep. I wanted to do a route on every major formation in the Valley. Simple as that. So, I’ve done the more mainstream routes already and was looking further afield. Was looking for routes that had free climbing in my range and nothing harder than A2. For Sentinel, that was Flying Buttress Direct. For Ribbon Falls Amphitheater, that was the Gold Line. For Yosemite Falls area, I spotted the Misty Wall.

Look at those three routes and you will see a lot of similarities. When I picked those routes, I had no way of knowing whether they were climbed regularly or not at all. No way to get beta, no Mountain Project to discuss with. They got on my list and have been there ever since.

The approach is just part of the climb to me. If you can’t get your bags to the base of the climb, you haven’t done the climb in my book. A long steep approach is part of what makes FBD a hard climb.

“Why go back for further punishment?” I don’t know why, but maybe because the couch is just too warm and soft? It’s simple, I keep going back because I said I was going to climb that route and by golly, I’m going to climb it. I don’t care if I have to solo it and it takes me two weeks. I don’t care if some hot shot out there could free climb it in a day. It’s not about them, this is for me.

Another reason might be that all my big wall stories have been told way too many times and even I am bored with telling them. I just need some new stories. Keeps me fresh.

Pete: "Do you have any idea - ANY idea?! - how many Big Wall Theorists I have seen hike their crap to the beginning of a wall, and then bail.  HUNDREDS!!! "

You wrote previously that getting the gear to the base was the hard part, and once that's done it's easy sailing.  

Keep in mind that you refuse to do these climbs because of the problem getting the gear to the base. Therefore, even for you just getting the gear to the base will make the difference, not the climb itself.

 Is the crux for you getting the gear to the base?  I know it is for me. 

Charles Winstead wrote:

The approach is just part of the climb to me. If you can’t get your bags to the base of the climb, you haven’t done the climb in my book. A long steep approach is part of what makes FBD a hard climb.

Imagine the idea of choosing not to break up the approach into multiple trips and calling that choice why a climb is objectively hard. 

Win by attrition or lose by submission

Kevin DeWeese: "Imagine the idea of choosing not to break up the approach into multiple trips ...".  

It's a nice thought Kevin, but the problem is one will risk having to retreat high up on the wall.  But if you are good at retreating, perhaps it's a good idea.  I am talking about doing HD in two days, the hauling would be almost non-existent.  If you could do it in 5 days all you would need is 140 pounds of gear total with two guys and you could still do it in one push.  Ten days might be two trips.  Why then did these guys make 4 trips? 

Ascent of Tis-sa-ack.14 years ago Mark Kahrl

https://vimeo.com/10328831?utm_campaign=5250933&utm_source=affiliate&utm_channel=affiliate&cjevent=b598f18bd27c11ee837f00050a82b832&clickid=b598f18bd27c11ee837f00050a82b832

donald perry wrote:

Kevin DeWeese: "Imagine the idea of choosing not to break up the approach into multiple trips ...".  

It's a nice thought Kevin, but the problem is one will risk having to retreat high up on the wall.  But if you are good at retreating, perhaps it's a good idea.  I am talking about doing HD in two days, the hauling would be almost non-existent.  If you could do it in 5 days all you would need is 140 pounds of gear total with two guys and you could still do it in one push.  Ten days might be two trips.  Why then did these guys make 4 trips? 

I was referring to OP's statement and context. 

That was a long read.  I appreciate all the different approaches and advice people have shared.  I wil add one small tip that I do to train/practice.  I aid climb sport routes.  A lot of them are overbolted and i can just aid the whole thing, If it's a bit harder to aid I will free climb it first and then top rope aid climb it.  It's helped a lot to get super comfortable walking up aiders and high stepping.  So I often bring my aid ladders and alfifi to the sport crag.  Going out trad climbing would be better but that doesn't always work out with what my partners want to do.  

Here are two notable quotes from How To Big Wall Climb by C. Mc:  "... big wall climbing does not require ... strength." pg. 11 "[If you] spend time climbing lightly and quickly ...[you will] will not need a 3-to-1."  They are not direct quotes, so no need to worry about plagiarism.  

Kevin Heinrich wrote:

Feel like I'm stating the obvious but, what about hiring a qualified guide/instructor to teach you to big wall well and efficiently?

Take one of Kevin's big wall classes to spare yourself the hassle of unnecessary training and become more efficient on the wall.