Petzl Ice Tool Failures (Current Generation Quark, Nomic, and Ergonomic)

Steve Barby wrote:

In BDs "gear doesn't last forever" article, they are essentially giving the same advice about retiring equipment;

LIFE OF ICE AXE:

Sporadic use with a seasonal concentration = between 5 and 10 years.

Regular use throughout the year on difficult routes and some ice falls = between 3 and 5 years.

Frequent, professional use on new routes and ice falls = between 3 and 6 seasons.

Dry tooling, modern mixed, competitions = between 1 and 2 seasons.

That all sounds like a bunch of bull shit that BD’s legal team advised the company to publish.

Steve Barby wrote:

The question is which are the better fucking tools. In BDs "gear doesn't last forever" article, they are essentially giving the same advice about retiring equipment;

LIFE OF ICE AXE:

Sporadic use with a seasonal concentration = between 5 and 10 years.

Regular use throughout the year on difficult routes and some ice falls = between 3 and 5 years.

Frequent, professional use on new routes and ice falls = between 3 and 6 seasons.

Dry tooling, modern mixed, competitions = between 1 and 2 seasons.

Name me once piece of BD gear that doesn’t suck ass besides the C4s. With that they are only good for aiding. DMMs are better cams for free climbing. Have you ever swung a fuel lol 

Sam Klinger wrote:

Name me once piece of BD gear that doesn’t suck ass besides the C4s. With that they are only good for aiding. DMMs are better cams for free climbing. Have you ever swung a fuel lol 

I love the BD vapor!

Sam Klinger wrote:

Name me once piece of BD gear that doesn’t suck ass besides the C4s. With that they are only good for aiding. DMMs are better cams for free climbing. Have you ever swung a fuel lol 

I’m coming to the fuels defence here. It’s always been a stellar mixed and hard ice tool but y’all just don’t climb hard enough to reap the benefits. Same goes for the fusions 

Sam Klinger wrote:

Name me once piece of BD gear that doesn’t suck ass besides the C4s. With that they are only good for aiding. DMMs are better cams for free climbing. Have you ever swung a fuel lol 

Whippet!
I guess it’s fashionable to bag on BD these days, and I’m more of a skier/ mountaineer than a hard climber, but I’ve had generally stellar experiences with BD gear. Sabertooths, Cobras, poles, obviously Camalots, Speed packs, etc. Hell, they even make a decent pair of skis from time to time.
And where are the pics of broken shafts on Fusions, Fuels, Reactors, Vipers, Cobras? (yes Nick, I know they had a pick issue for a while;).
They did have that egregious lapse in 2016 when the rivet guy, bar tack guy, and QC inspector took the week off, but iirc they got ahead of it quickly before someone died.
As others have said, gear is really good today, but it can still break. Be safe out there. 

@Carter and Graham, holy shit! Glad you guys are still with us! Thanks for relating that experience. 

Bale wrote:

Whippet!
I guess it’s fashionable to bag on BD these days, and I’m more of a skier/ mountaineer than a hard climber, but I’ve had generally stellar experiences with BD gear. Sabertooths, Cobras, poles, obviously Camalots, Speed packs, etc. Hell, they even make a decent pair of skis from time to time.
And where are the pics of broken shafts on Fusions, Fuels, Reactors, Vipers, Cobras? (yes Nick, I know they had a pick issue for a while;).
They did have that egregious lapse in 2016 when the rivet guy, bar tack guy, and QC inspector took the week off, but iirc they got ahead of it quickly before someone died.
As others have said, gear is really good today, but it can still break. Be safe out there. 

Agree, but this is supposed to be a Petzel bashing thread  

Li Hu wrote:

Agree, but this is supposed to be a Petzel bashing thread  

Haha. I started on Charlet Moser Axars that climbed ice like stickball bats compared to Cobras. Charlet was later acquired by Petzl, how’s that? 

Bale wrote:

Haha. I started on Charlet Moser Axars that climbed ice like stickball bats compared to Cobras. Charlet was later acquired by Petzl, how’s that? 

Yes, Charlet Moser axes are what I used as well.

I’m planning to use my brand new Nomics, but if I have to baby these delicate sticks, not sure I’d use them past this season. May go back to my 30 year old axes, or find something more reliable such as Elite?

I too have an almost brand new pair of Nomics and this thread isn't exactly giving me warm fuzzy feelings about them.

If I were to replace them I'd probably go with the Simond Mambas. I tried a friend's set a few weeks ago and I really liked them.

https://www.simond.com/the-mamba-our-new-ice-climbing-ice-axe

Steve Barby wrote:

Shimano crank issues were denied for years.

This was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw this thread. Must be just a fraction of a percent that fail, but man these photos are hard to unsee.  

Bale wrote:

This was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw this thread. Must be just a fraction of a percent that fail, but man these photos are hard to unsee.  

Exactly, and we can actually do something about it before anything happens. I may be able to laminate a Kevlar skin onto mine? But next go, I’ll likely pay a bit more for Elite tools. I don’t climb ice much, but I also don’t like worrying about my gear when I throw a tool.

Bale wrote:

This was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw this thread. Must be just a fraction of a percent that fail, but man these photos are hard to unsee.  

I had not heard of this prior to a thread, reading this history I found a site listing approximate numbers out of 2.8m cranks sold worldwide about 4000 reported incidents, so about 1 in 700. I know ice climbing is not nearly as popular as cycling, so unlikely that there are a million ice tools out there world wide from any single manufacturer. 

It is really hard to unsee those photos. Especially if you solo a lot.. 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

It is really hard to unsee those photos. Especially if you solo a lot.. 

What exactly would one do with just one tool, halfway up a route while soloing? Are there techniques for that, or is it just grim? 

Climbing Weasel wrote:

What exactly would one do with just one tool, halfway up a route while soloing? Are there techniques for that, or is it just grim?

Put in a screw, build a thread, and rap down.

Most ice soloists are wearing a harness, have a few screws+cord, and tail their rope or carry it in their pack.

Climbing Weasel wrote:

What exactly would one do with just one tool, halfway up a route while soloing? Are there techniques for that, or is it just grim? 

I wear a harness and have a screw at least. Would consider a third tool and rap line for bigger things. Also good to practice ice climbing with your hands without tools. But then again, if your tool breaks while soloing, you'll probably only have time for a short f bomb laced prayer.

Most of the folks who solo hard ice wear a harness and carry enough screws to make an anchor and thread off with 6mm ice floss in the case of deteriorating conditions and  or equipment failure.  I have broken crampons at least 3 times soloing and broken two picks soloing.  One humming Bird and one BD Viper.  my two other BD viper pick failures were leading. I have not carried a 3rd tool since I switched from BD tools.If the handle of the tool comes off while you are cranking hard on it in vertical terrain its probably a done deal...  My friend Alden broke the handle off a Grivel machine leading WI6 but it was BINTD of leashes and his leash was attached to the head of the tool so he did not fall and was able to get to his 3rd tool. Almost no one carries a 3rd tool anymore... 

Finn Lanvers wrote:

I love the BD vapor!

My friend broke one inside his backpack while carrying it.
Another took a whipper when the handle broke off.

Free soloing on old tools with leashes was probably safer. 

Shepido wrote:

I had not heard of this prior to a thread, reading this history I found a site listing approximate numbers out of 2.8m cranks sold worldwide about 4000 reported incidents, so about 1 in 700. I know ice climbing is not nearly as popular as cycling, so unlikely that there are a million ice tools out there world wide from any single manufacturer. 

Wow, I didn’t think it was that high! I thought it was the same ten people posting pics across all social media. I mean, you’re gonna be fine on Nomics, but now you have that fucking insidious ear worm failure mode that you really can’t inspect. I’m confident Petzl will fix this like BD did with those early SS crampons.