Thinking of Moving to New Paltz?

Just remember, this is the kind of shenanigans we deal with: apparently, pay by app replacing coin meters is draconian now. Dying of laughter here.

The inequalities created by a cashless society are real.  What part of "draconian" is either funny, or hard to understand in the context of what is written in the screenshot you shared?

Costin you will be old too and far sooner than you can imagine, it will happen in a blink my man. You'll be the same person you are now, just old. I hope you have the courage to laugh in your own face, when you realize "you're one of them" too.

Pay by app is also inherently more expensive. At my college town of Plymouth, NH parking went up by about $1 per hour with the switch to Park Mobile.

Every time I see my parents I have to help them navigate some issue with their phone. Technology is a real barrier for seniors. Have a little compassion. 

Dying of laughter here.

That's sad. You might be missed. 

I'm not clear on why a citizen with concerns that seem far from outlandish to me should be viewed as promoting "shenanigans." I don't find "draconian" to be quite the right term though; how about "discriminatory" or "exclusionary?"  Forgetting about senior citizens and their ability to cope with modern technology, it seems wrong for public places to only be accessible to people who can afford and operate certain types of technology, which even if generally ubiquitous is not available to or possessed by everyone.  If you have to install ramps to make public places wheelchair-accessible, why is it that you get to exclude people who either don't own a cell phone or can't use some of its features?  Isn't that an accessibility issue too, and is it "shenanigans" to raise it as a concern?

The meters I've seen in NYC allow you to pay with cash or credit card or a parking app.  If it is true that New Paltz has eliminated two of those options with only the parking app remaining, then I think that's a general failure of public policy, quite apart from whatever issues senior citizens may or may not have.  But in this regard, the town website seems unaware of such changes and claims that coin-operated meters are available on Tricor Ave, but also says that ParkMobile can be used.  So it isn't entirely clear from a distance whether there's an issue or not.

[Personal note: as a nearly octagenarian owner of an iPhone who somehow---against apparently overwhelming odds---managed to install ParkMobile in a few minutes all by myself, I'd just like to remind the youngsters out there that some of us might be as competent as y'all when it comes to tech.]

rgoldwrote:

  If you have to install ramps to make public places wheelchair-accessible, why is it that you get to exclude people who either don't own a cell phone or can't use some of its features?  

I think Christian explained “why is it that you get to exclude people who either don't own a cell phone or can't use some of its features” pretty well.   Actually if the surcharge is just $1/hr more I’d say to get ready for the real increase because it’s still coming. 

Cristian Willwrote:

Pay by app is also inherently more expensive. At my college town of Plymouth, NH parking went up by about $1 per hour with the switch to Park Mobile.

And that extra fee probably goes to a private equity owned contractor that makes the app, rather than going to city infrastructure.

JCMwrote:

And that extra fee probably goes to a private equity owned contractor that makes the app, rather than going to city infrastructure.

Who in turn make generous and completely legal campaign contributions to the folks that gave them the contract. 

"shenanigans we deal with"

"facebook drama we opt in to"

Just wait until this poor chap sees the price of a Mohonk season pass, they are going to have a heart attack. 

Nope.

Sockeye Scullywrote:

Just wait until this poor chap sees the price of a Mohonk season pass, they are going to have a heart attack. 

As long as he doesn’t have to but it with Apple Pay dude be just fine 

Oh boy I forgot I posted this but...

The inequalities created by a cashless society are real.

This is true, but not entirely black and white as "cash is good and anything else is bad." Todd Zywicki went through a pretty thorough analysis on the topic and ultimately the takeaway is that we need to accept that as a society we are (because of consumer preference) moving towards a cashless society. The focus should not be on how to avoid this, but rather how to ensure equality despite it.

I don't find "draconian" to be quite the right term though; how about "discriminatory" or "exclusionary?"

The embellishment and use of "draconian" was meant to be the main point of my post. In terms of if this is "discriminatory" or "exclusionary" I think the Todd Zywicki article would be an interesting read, it was for me. As someone who's parents came to America to escape a communist regime... maybe I just have a different bar of what qualifies as "draconian" :)

in this regard, the town website seems unaware of such changes and claims that coin-operated meters are available on Tricor Ave, but also says that ParkMobile can be used

This is the case for 90% of the parking locations in New Paltz now. I believe one or two lots (which previously had no parking and tow-away signs) are pay-by-app only.

Technology is a real barrier for seniors. Have a little compassion.

I don't think at any point I focused on the senior citizen aspect of the original screenshot... but I wanted to included it for context. That being said, I'll bite: almost a decade ago I worked in tech support for the big company that sells fruit or something. This may be entirely anecdotal but: there was no apparent lack of technological ability in senior callers. I had 20 year-olds calling who didn't know where the home button on their phone was... and other customers 4 times their age who just needed help increasing their cloud storage. I strongly believe that the choice to adopt technology is just that: a choice. See:

[Personal note: as a nearly octagenarian owner of an iPhone who somehow---against apparently overwhelming odds---managed to install ParkMobile in a few minutes all by myself, I'd just like to remind the youngsters out there that some of us might be as competent as y'all when it comes to tech.]

[...] you will be old too and far sooner than you can imagine, it will happen in a blink my man. You'll be the same person you are now, just old. I hope you have the courage to laugh in your own face, when you realize "you're one of them" too

I sure hope so... but more so I hope that I never become someone who refuses to learn something new just because it's hard.

But at the end of the day... why do I even care? I'm still not going to pay the meter and just risk the ticket like I have for the last 5 years ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Costin Anghelwrote: But at the end of the day... why do I even care? I'm still not going to pay the meter and just risk the ticket like I have for the last 5 years ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Police! This guy right here

Costin Anghelwrote:

This is true, but not entirely black and white as "cash is good and anything else is bad." Todd Zywicki went through a pretty thorough analysis on the topic and ultimately the takeaway is that we need to accept that as a society we are (because of consumer preference) moving towards a cashless society. The focus should not be on how to avoid this, but rather how to ensure equality despite it.

 I strongly believe that the choice to adopt technology is just that: a choice.  

At risk of wading into a MP political debate, it's worth pointing out that the source of the analysis you cite is the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank founded by Charles Koch. Anything from Cato is going to have a very specific political angle. Generally speaking, they want to privatise everything and are opposed to labor rights and consumer protections. This doesn't necessarily invalidate the argument presented in the article, but be aware of the strong built-in bias.

This is relevant to the freedom of choice argument you present. Is it really a choice to adopt a technology (cashless payment app) if that technology is the only way to live in society (for instance, buy food at a local store)? This is the irony of these Cato libertarian arguments. Ostensibly they want to protect freedom of choice, but in practice what they seek to protect is the ability of the wealthy and powerful to control the less powerful, without interference from labor rights or consumer protection laws. This vision of a libertarian world ends up being less free for most.

This discussion wanders from from the situation of just a few parking lots in New Paltz. I don't really have a dog in that particular fight. But as a general principle I think we should be cautious of compulsory adoption of technology. Many technologies are good and serve to make people's lives better, but other technologies serve only to consolidate the wealth and power of the individuals and corporations that control those technologies. These are scenarios where it is worth fighting against the use of that technology. Look to the current actors and screenwriters strikes, which hinge largely on fighting against certain implementation of AI. These fights will continue and become only more pressing. They've been going on for a long time also. An interesting read is "Blood in the Machine", a recent book chronicling labor opposition  to early industrial automation.

Anyway, I guess in summary.... smash the machines.

Hey guys!
I would like to move to New Paltz
Currently trying to figure out all the details

James Brassellwrote:

Hey guys!
I would like to move to New Paltz
Currently trying to figure out all the details

Specific questions would help. 

James Brassellwrote:

Hey guys!
I would like to move to New Paltz
Currently trying to figure out all the details

Moving to a new place can be exciting. I hope you will like New Paltz. Make sure to research the area, explore housing options, and familiarize yourself with the local amenities and community. We lived in New Palts for about two years but moved to NY several months ago. It was a spontaneous decision we had to take fast because my wife was suggested to get a good job position. Fortunately, we found NYC Movers who helped us pack and transfer everything even faster than we expected. Who knows, maybe one day we will move back. Life is unpredictable.

Feel free to ask any questions you have, I'm sure the community here will be happy to help!

James Brassellwrote:

Hey guys!
I would like to move to New Paltz
Currently trying to figure out all the details

Have you got the right parking app?