What do you wish you had known before you started renovating your dirtbag van?

that's a huge bummer....

Hey everyone! I know this is an old thread, I commented on this back in 2019. Here is an update on what happened with my insurance over the last 3 years. 

I'm still living vanlife, my husband and I are on year 4 now. We have a 2007 Dodge Sprinter with a nice DIY camper build, it qualified as a Class B motorhome to South Dakota standards and I had it retitled so I could get full timers insurance to cover belongings. Back in 2019, the only insurance company that would do it was Progressive ONLY if I had a Goodsam membership. I asked them how it made a difference/how it worked and all they told me was "We have a special relationship with Goodsam that allows us to insure full timers in categories like Westfalia RVs"

I thought it was shifty but I went with it, since at the very least I needed a document that said I was insured. 

fast forward a few years, I'm a little older now and my concerns have changed. I became worried that Progressive didn't understand what they were insuring and if I was in a car accident they would deny me coverage which would leave me homeless and looking for a new van or travel trailer + truck and having to pay out of pocket for it. If it was going to fail me, I wanted to know now instead of when I needed them. 

I contacted them to make updates to my policy, including new things I've installed to prevent break ins while I traveled in California. 

They said under no circumstances would they cover my van. Basically they mistakenly insured me and I've been driving around the country for the last few years without insurance. 

This is the part that you might find most important:

I asked if I could just insure it with an auto policy and get a different policy just to cover my belongings.  They said no, and not because its titled as a Class B, but because of the contents of the van. If I were to get in an accident and photos of the wreckage were submitted to them, I would be denied because it has a bed and stuff in the back. This is the case even if I'm not asking them to cover the contents of the van. 

I'm sharing this because its possible that if you have a camper van titled and insured as an automobile, you might not actually be covered by Progressive in an accident. If you end up talking to them about this, be honest about what's in the cargo area. Its better to know than to get screwed, especially if its your dwelling full time. 

For those of you wanting to build your own campervan, the only way they will insure it is if a certified company installs enough of your build to say they built it, while you can do the rest. For example, you would have to contract a company to install the galley or something then you can say its a professional custom build. Then Progressive will cover it. 

The Entrepreneur in me considers having *just enough of a shop* to call myself a business that does certified custom van builds, get myself approved by RVIA or whatever. Basically a place where van folks can bring their van and pay me a miniscule amount of money and I'll say it was built there professionally. Throwing this idea out there, haha! 

For now, I'm going to try another experiment. I'll be working at a ski resort this winter so I will be moving out of the van for nearly 7 months. There is a company called "Roamly" that specializes in insuring DIY campervans, just not for full-timers. This should work for me for now. I'll post again in May 2024 when I have to face this again.

I'd love to know what you figured out with your vans and if your insurance company is fully aware of what they're covering (or not covering) and any details they shared with you about it. 

Thanks everyone! 

I share plenty of other things along this subject / climbing / mountaineering / bike touring / full time travel. 

www.foreveralpine.com

Super interesting post Ana, thanks. My approach to DIY improvments was to not insure them. But I wasn't living in it full time. What I wanted to make damn sure of is that I wouldn't be DQ'd on liability, which I'm sure was a concern you had as well. I caused an accident in that vehicle and it was covered, so phew! I've since moved on to a new ride, which is a 4wd pickup with a clamp on camper shell (not a slide-in), and that shell is kept simple on purpose. Its just a pickup shell, far easier to insure.

A friend of mine has a fully built out Sprinter style van. Nice paneling throughout, kitchen, heater, the works. He lives in it for up to a month at a time traveling for work and dirtbagging. He recently worried about the same issue and found an insurer who had a special policy designed primarily to cover 4 wheel trucks built out with high end light bars and such. But they also insure vans with home build outs. 

The day after the new policy went into effect, he hit an elk on a ski trip to White Pass. $17,000 damage to his front end and grille, though it was still drivable. On his previous policy, this would have totaled out the van, it being high mileage, and they would not have repaired it. Which means he would have been out of pocket for all his work on his build out. 

But the new policy included the value of his build out in the grand total value, pushing it far above the $17,000 of damage. Bottom line, they repaired his front end and he is back on the road. When I saw him at the crag, he had added a bull guard on the front end. 

For myself, I have an 8 foot bed Tundra with a barebones plumbers canopy on the back. I have a simple bed platform with storage underneath. 200 watts of solar on the top powers my fridge using a DIY milk crate battery. I cook on the tailgate. It's basically a metal tent. I looked at the reliability of the vans and was not impressed. Plus, I can convert my Tundra build out back to a truck in an hour...to haul plywood or do a dump run. Because of my high clearance and 4WD, I was a popular guy at the creek this last spring during high water. Mine was the only vehicle able to ford the river to Way Rambo. Full speed ahead captain!

Mark Websterwrote:

A friend of mine has a fully built out Sprinter style van. Nice paneling throughout, kitchen, heater, the works. He lives in it for up to a month at a time traveling for work and dirtbagging. He recently worried about the same issue and found an insurer who had a special policy designed primarily to cover 4 wheel trucks built out with high end light bars and such. But they also insure vans with home build outs. 

The day after the new policy went into effect, he hit an elk on a ski trip to White Pass. $17,000 damage to his front end and grille, though it was still drivable. On his previous policy, this would have totaled out the van, it being high mileage, and they would not have repaired it. Which means he would have been out of pocket for all his work on his build out. 

But the new policy included the value of his build out in the grand total value, pushing it far above the $17,000 of damage. Bottom line, they repaired his front end and he is back on the road. When I saw him at the crag, he had added a bull guard on the front end. 

For myself, I have an 8 foot bed Tundra with a barebones plumbers canopy on the back. I have a simple bed platform with storage underneath. 200 watts of solar on the top powers my fridge using a DIY milk crate battery. I cook on the tailgate. It's basically a metal tent. I looked at the reliability of the vans and was not impressed. Plus, I can convert my Tundra build out back to a truck in an hour...to haul plywood or do a dump run. Because of my high clearance and 4WD, I was a popular guy at the creek this last spring during high water. Mine was the only vehicle able to ford the river to Way Rambo. Full speed ahead captain!

Which insurance company did he go with that ended up covering him? Policies are different depending on the length of time you spend living in it. a month here and there isnt the problem,  stays longer than 6 consecutive months are the issue. 

Mark Websterwrote:

200 watts of solar on the top powers my fridge using a DIY milk crate battery. 

About that battery: 640Wh, $620 to build, and looks like this:

Contrast with Ecoflow RIVER Pro: 720Wh, normally $649 currently on sale for $479, and looks like:

Thanks so much Ana, and really everyone here! Though I am only 14 I can stop thinking about the dirtbag lifestyle of living in a car and climbing. All of your posts have been super helpful and I am taking lessons away from reading each one. Can’t wait to be sending everyday!

Alex Handjamwrote:

Though I am only 14 I can stop thinking about the dirtbag lifestyle of living in a car and climbing. Can’t wait to be sending everyday!

It's not quite what you think it is. Remember, you're still going to need income. And you'll need to be prepared for the curve balls life will throw at you. Eg: I had appendicitis in 2007. My out-of-pocket was ~$500 - my billed charges before insurance totaled ~$17,000.

I agree with Marc, but I'll add:

As long as you keep your expectations realistic, living in a van and climbing can be a pretty great life. This isn't really to do with renovating the van, but here's the top 3 mistakes I see from people who don't have fun living in a van:

1. They don't have a source of income. Yes, I get it, capitalism isn't fair, but unfortunately it's almost as much work to abstain from capitalism in any reasonable lifestyle as it is to participate in it. There are a lot of jobs that work for living in a van--some common ones are designers or computer programmers who can work remotely, and travel nurses who can work a few months at a time and then have lots of time off. You can get a climbing-related job like guiding, but those tend to pay less, and things tend not to be as fun when they're your job. But, all of these are plans that work--I know people who have been doing these things for years. What doesn't work is quitting all work and then being surprised when you run out of money.
2. They move around constantly and get lonely. Curmudgeons notwithstanding, everyone I know who climbs long term has friends, and likes having friends, who they spend time with. If you're constantly moving on to the next place every week, you don't have time to form very deep friendships, and it becomes difficult to find climbing partners. I've had really good luck spending 4-6 months in locations: living in the van takes all the stress out of "moving" because there's no packing or security deposits or whatever to deal with. Not only that, but by staying in an area for a while you really get to learn all the lessons a local rock type has to teach you. Add to that the constant logistics of basic things like "where is a good supemarket" and "where can I find WiFi/signal" and moving around frequently ends up with you eating junk food and missing work commitments. Moving around too frequently just isn't sustainable.
3. Plans for when things go wrong. The number of vanlifers who don't have AAA or equivalent is bizarre to me. How comfortable are you working on your van if it needs a serious repair, or do you have money to pay for that? Do you have collision insurance? What about health insurance?

As a bonus: earplugs! So many people complain about sleeping poorly due to noise in their vehicles. I like natural sounds like crickets or rain, but if there's any other sounds going on I'll put in earplugs and sleep like a baby.

You Really Are The Greatestwrote: You can stay at a lot of hotels for the cost of building out a van.

Google says the avg hotel cost is $143 whatever that means. lets say the dirt bag somehow figures out how to do it for an average of half that $70.

I spent ~10k give or take on my van build (not including the van itself) which I've now enjoyed for about a year and works as well as it did when I started living in it.  That 10k is about 140 $70 hotel nights but a year later I still have the van and I'd so much rather sleep in it than a $70/night hotel... I don't even crash in peoples guest rooms when offered as I'd rather be in the van

My build is really nice and cost less than 5 k but a bazillion hours of my time.  I hate hotels and also will sleep in the van rather than a guest room even with family. 

- AAA doesnt cover ford transits. They wouldnt even give me a jump. Dont know what i was paying for then....

- insulate with thinsulate and not sheepswool/havelock it is much better longterm.

- living in the van while building it out doesnt really work.

I lived in a transit 250 awd mostly in alaska for 3 years now. It is not so bad and fits my lifestyle. I get to climb/ski etc a lot. There are a lot of things that take extra work thay you will not anticipate. The awd transit has been great for me with winter tires.

Ben, you absolutely need a really good  lithium jumper pack. I have three  of them. I keep two in the work truck unless i am on a trip with the van . then I take the extra on the trip so i have two in my van while on the road. 

why would I want to stay in a hotel? 

Marc801 Cwrote:

It's not quite what you think it is. Remember, you're still going to need income. And you'll need to be prepared for the curve balls life will throw at you. Eg: I had appendicitis in 2007. My out-of-pocket was ~$500 - my billed charges before insurance totaled ~$17,000.

I’d like to borrow a time machine- my recent out of pocket for the same surgery is approaching $5k and the pre-billed charges were 2x yours. 

Marc801 Cwrote:

About that battery: 640Wh, $620 to build, and looks like this:

Contrast with Ecoflow RIVER Pro: 720Wh, normally $649 currently on sale for $479, and looks like:

Do your research and remember that DIY isn't necessarily better or cheaper.

I have since upgraded to a 100Ah (1200Wh) SOK battery for $600 that has a built in heater and bluetooth monitoring.  Back in the day, we used to buy our home stereo systems in components: separate Amp, turntable, radio receiver and tape deck. The reasoning was that a system failure in an All-in-one stereo would take down the whole unit. Whereas replacing a component was much cheaper. Will Prouse, the youtube crate build guy, has the same thinking on his crate. Those commercial units are lovely and smaller, but when circuits go wrong inside their housings, you basically toss them. Will has done tear downs on them and it's often low quality components.

Even if? mine was more expensive, I enjoyed working on it, electricity is fun to learn. And I can fix or upgrade anything that goes wrong. A recent improvement I made on it is a master cut off switch to isolate the battery.

I bought two AGM 100amp hr batteries  for $365.00 4 years ago. If for some reason they die while I am on the road I will just go to Auto zone or orielies etc and replace them with deep cycle marine trolling batteries.  If it happens when i am home i will do more reserch and  probobly spend more money or even see if the same batteries are still available. They have been rocking for 4 years and never been low on power. .  

Dan Cookseywrote:

Just trying to offer a cheap work around.   Using this meter has been all I’ve ever had and it’s never failed me. 

Have one like it as well. I agree, an expensive charge controller is not needed. YMMV Nick.

I have the renogy charge controller. 

I got two 100AH AGM UPS backups used for $80 ea from a local battery place 6-7 years ago and they are still just fine. They were taken from a hospital/medical setting where they have to replace backups early while still well within their healthiest lifespan for obvious reasons. Even if I was on the road, I would try to search out this kind of battery dealer for the same kind of replacement to save some $$ !

Also, consider limiting or eliminating the need for 120VAC. Large inverters to run anything and everything on 120V can be pricy. We opted out by having (almost) all of our electrical devices run directly off 12V or 12V chargers, this includes lighting, radio, TV, laptops, water pump. We do have a small $30 inverter for a coffee grinder and I use it to charge cordless drill driver batteries. 

And unless you go with lithium, try to size your battery storage ample so you don't draw it down too much. The deeper you cycle, the shorter the life of the batteries.