Rockfall/Climber Fall First Flatiron

23, not 2-3...?

Oh my gosh….can’t believe I even have to say this out loud but you are two grown ass men having a pissing match on mountain project. Both of you need to grow up, stop over sharing on the internet and chill tf out. Seriously.

Just wanted to add to this to end any speculation as the climber who fell is a good friend of mine. They were climbing the DEF with a friend and fell just below getting to the north arete. the first time I saw them post-accident they were not sure as to how they fell but later told me that it was due to a hold breaking. They sustained a serious open fracture of the lower leg and a broken back after falling 100 or so feet and stopping on a ledge. I am super happy they survived but there are going to be lasting effects from the fall. Soloing the first is a very serious undertaking no matter how experienced the climber is. The climbing is insecure, holds can break, anything can happen and just be aware of this if it is something you choose to do. 

Hannah Outdoorswrote:

Oh my gosh….can’t believe I even have to say this out loud but you are two grown ass men having a pissing match on mountain project. Both of you need to grow up, stop over sharing on the internet and chill tf out. Seriously.

I disagree. I love it!

Bruno Schullwrote:

This passage is a great example of how the whole pronoun thing just breaks grammar...were there three climbers on the route?   That's how it sounds.  Jeesh...if you're going to use the plural pronoun to refer to one person, at least be consistent: "The climbers reached for a hold and then they felt it break."  We need a new gender neutral pronoun that is not male or female identified, and not weirdly offensive, as would be the case if we used "It."  Using "They" just doesn't work. It sounds ridiculous.  Boomer rant over.

The number of climbers is established in the first sentence: "the climber".  I think it reads pretty easily from there with that context in mind.  When the gender of the subject is unknown "they" makes sense.  For example:  "Some idiot cut me off on my drive to work this morning; they were driving like a maniac."  

I like where this is going!

Bruno Schullwrote:

@ Sam, You've kind of made my point.  In casual speach we often use "They" and the context naturally tells us if we are talking about one or several people.  The word "They" is taken.  Find a new word, or just, you know, get over yourself?

Glad I helped you make your point, but after this reply I am now confused at what your point even is.  "They" in the use of Javier's Flatiron story, and "they" being used as a non-gender conforming pronoun are two completely different things.  
Is "getting over myself" my next big proj this fall?  Can I get a belay from you?  thx in advance!

Bruno Schullwrote:

@ Sam, You've kind of made my point.  In casual speach we often use "They" and the context naturally tells us if we are talking about one or several people.  The word "They" is taken.  Find a new word, or just, you know, get over yourself?

Yea, find a new word. Or just make one up. Like speach. 

Cmon Tradiban, this thread was way cooler when we were talking about LSD and rope soloing

Boomer rant over.

No, it will continue; tomorrow, the next day, and likely forever.

Bruno Schullwrote:

@ Austin, thanks for the correction.  I am a tereeble speellr.  Always have bean. 

@ Sam--happy to give you a belay!  But you'll have to belay me a few times too, so I can work on my own issues :)

To be clear, the "get over yourself" comment was also not directed at you, but at those who feel the need to use They/Them pronouns.  

All best.  

If you had written 'The word "They" is taken.  They should find a new word, or just, you know, get over themselves?' that would have been clear. 

Adam Rwrote:

If you had written 'The word "They" is taken.  They should find a new word, or just, you know, get over themselves?' that would have been clear. 

Ha!  Good point.  Language is endlessly fluid and often ambiguous.  Let's not make it more so.

Hannah Outdoorswrote:

Oh my gosh….can’t believe I even have to say this out loud but you are two grown ass men having a pissing match on mountain project. Both of you need to grow up, stop over sharing on the internet and chill tf out. Seriously.

Yowza. I'm not entirely sure if that was directed at me, but, presuming so, I am taken aback.

Apologies if you take offense at me sharing my earnest thoughts and feelings. 

If you think I'm aiming for a pissing match, you are mistaken.

(For my wittle pee-pee is quite small, and my stream is oh so pitifully non-competitive... Not to overshare, of course.) 

Sorry, as well, Hannah, if you didn't like my story and felt it was oversharing. I find it personally helpful to share stories that were affecting to me. I think it's perhaps the part of climbing and mountaineering I appreciate the most - experiencing remarkable things and sharing them with like-minded people through thoughtfully crafted storytelling. 

It sounds like I might not be amongst like-minded people in this thread, though. I'll gladly see myself out.

It's risky business, eh, criticizing someone whose behavior you find distressing, no? Feeling there are things you can't believe you have to say out loud, and perhaps feeling compelled to say those things through storytelling...

Javier, thank you for sharing that information. I'm glad that your friend survived and is in the healing process. Again, best wishes for a swift and full recovery.

Sam Pughwrote:

Guys it's fine, he's soloed the approximate route on 3 hits of acid before so he's definitely "experienced" (as Jimi would say)

Who the fuck eats lunch when they're on acid??! 

Short Fall Seanwrote:

Who the fuck eats lunch when they're on acid??! 

Thanks Sean for bringing us back to the ground here. It's been stressful watching this fun thread become useless when there are important topics such as this one to discuss! I for one was never hungry in this altered state of mind, eating was... a real chore if I had to, but I guess it depends on how long I'd been up.

I once mowed the lawn on LSD when I was a teenager, I ended up making concentric sprials/circles around a tree until I got close to another tree and then would switch that one as my center point and spiral around from there. It wasn't very efficient but it sure did feel right and the end result was pretty far out mannnnnn.

This thread is a god damn embarrassment. Bruno, thanks for coming in here and showing everyone that you're wholly grammatically illiterate to start and then just devolving into open transphobia - I'm sure you get just as wound up about people who use nicknames as well, right? I can only hope you employ as much critical thinking as you did here in every one of your climbing outings. The fact that he was allowed to come back and double and triple down on his dogshit takes despite being removed each time is really not a good look for the mods of the forum. I want to be very openly clear on my stance here since Bruno was able to be about his as well - they/them pronouns are 100% legitimate in every way. He/her pronouns are legitimate. Whatever pronouns you want to use are cool, just let me know. The irony of talking about how fluid language is but not recognizing the same about gender identity is a level of cognitive dissonance that I'm sure can only be achieved by spending 14 years on the mountain project forums.

Nick, as always, I hope you one day can get a sliver of dopamine from being a decent human for once instead of existing solely to rile people up. 

Daniel, sounds like you've been up to some pretty sketchy shit - I'm glad you've survived it and despite the ribbing from folks here, myself included, I hope your recovery goes well and that you're able to dip back into climbing on the other side of the injury seeking instruction and look back 20 years from now on how far you've come.

Javier, I'm glad your friend survived the fall, I can't imagine what they must be going through. If there are any avenues of assistance folks can help provide (gofundme, general help, etc.), please let me know.

Hannah, since apparently the mods are generally unwilling to do so, it might be a good idea to lock this thread once you return to MP. It seems all information that can actually help another human being has been communicated already and this is officially a wagyu-grade shit show.

Tal Mwrote:

This thread is a god damn embarrassment. Bruno, thanks for coming in here and showing everyone that you're wholly grammatically illiterate to start and then just devolving into open transphobia - I'm sure you get just as wound up about people who use nicknames as well, right? I can only hope you employ as much critical thinking as you did here in every one of your climbing outings. The fact that he was allowed to come back and double and triple down on his dogshit takes despite being removed each time is really not a good look for the mods of the forum. I want to be very openly clear on my stance here since Bruno was able to be about his as well - they/them pronouns are 100% legitimate in every way. He/her pronouns are legitimate. Whatever pronouns you want to use are cool, just let me know. The irony of talking about how fluid language is but not recognizing the same about gender identity is a level of cognitive dissonance that I'm sure can only be achieved by spending 14 years on the mountain project forums.

Nick, as always, I hope you one day can get a sliver of dopamine from being a decent human for once instead of existing solely to rile people up. 

Daniel, sounds like you've been up to some pretty sketchy shit - I'm glad you've survived it and despite the ribbing from folks here, myself included, I hope your recovery goes well and that you're able to dip back into climbing on the other side of the injury seeking instruction and look back 20 years from now on how far you've come.

Javier, I'm glad your friend survived the fall, I can't imagine what they must be going through. If there are any avenues of assistance folks can help provide (gofundme, general help, etc.), please let me know.

Hannah, since apparently the mods are generally unwilling to do so, it might be a good idea to lock this thread once you return to MP. It seems all information that can actually help another human being has been communicated already and this is officially a wagyu-grade shit show.

They/Them can be confusing, just not exactly in this case, it was just a bad example. It helps to announce pronouns before describing a situation, such as I see in journalism. For example, “Bruno, who uses they/them pronouns, was walking on a short pier when they suddenly fell off the end!”.

Namasthey.