New and experienced climbers over 50 # 25

Randy... I wanted to thank you for your suggestions.  The written word isn't always as easy as just sitting face to face... so I guess we have to deal with clarifications.  Tell me if I have this... 

What I THINK you are saying is that mileage, in terms of many easy/moderate routes, is the best way to develop automatic insight and muscle memory/technique in climbing (along with endurance and strength, of course).  Does that sum it up?  I was thinking about the route I recently posted... possibly the hardest route I've climbed to date... and there was no way, under that kind of duress, to figure out a new skill.  There was a quick, precise sequence of moves that to onsight it would require prior knowledge and a lot of experience with routes of that grade.  I didn't have that on that particular route so Bob's coaching through the crux was so crucial.  But I'm gaining some facility on easier routes with, as you said, repeated outings at easy/moderate climbing.  ie. I can pretty much figure out a 5.9 face climb now, on my own, because of so many similar experiences.    

Thinking about how to integrate your suggestions... in practical terms, it is a time/money issue... and an energy issue, so I'm thinking this all over.  I am still recovering from whatever combo of things took me out exactly one year ago.  I don't know how I'll really be when it's time to start climbing in earnest next month.  But I have been thinking about bumping climbing days up to 3 times a week, one of those days being something completely different (and with someone different), like maybe crack or steep face climbing... or being out longer days.  6 hours might be long enough to rebuild strength and confidence.  I'm going to be trying to hone in on optimal time on the rock for me.  

But in terms of the routes I have chosen for this year... it's all negotiable, and easily modified if I find I just don't have it.  

White Room 5.9

I don't know if anyone has climbed this since Bob Gaines and Alan Bartlett put it up in 1992.  The challenge for me would just be getting to it... being comfortable with a 2-pitch route, and being possibly stuck there for part of a day.  It's a short route.  It will take some slab skills on possibly the most beautiful sheet of rock in the area.   The other consideration is whether Bob will want to bother with this.  I would totally understand if he just said he didn't want to do this.  It's also my opportunity to acquire some trad skills... self-rescue wise. 

 The Compassion of the Elephants 10c 

I think this is Kris Solem on this route.     I'll have what he's having!!!    

To do this one, I'll have to climb a whole lot of easier slab routes this season.  I'm comfortable on a 5.9-10a.  I've climbed a number of 10b's, a few 10c's and 10d's.  I want to break through that barrier, and learn how to levitate.    I'm ok if I never make it, just let me try.  

The Decompensator of Lhasa 10c

Ditto from above

Trix 10b

So... what I like about this choice is that it has a 10a crack.  I don't climb 10a cracks.  So... if I were to be able to climb Trix, I'll have to do a bit of crack climbing this season.  Honestly, I'd be happy if I could just climb Double Cross with a little bit of grace.  

I like these choices.  I like that they would require me to gain skill and technique over a period of 9 months, but are not totally out of reach.  I'm fine with not climbing any of them... discovering that I'm just not up to it.  Or that Bob has his reasons for not wanting to go there.  

This is all play... 'earnest play'.  It's just purely fun, pretend.  

It also means letting go of some things:  Dog Day Afternoon, Frontal Lobotomy... so many. 

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EDIT:  Regarding 'leisurely' routes here... I think Brandt and others may disagree with me, because they are much stronger climbers.  I have never encountered a leisurely route here in Joshua Tree.  I got winded on a 5.4 a few weeks ago... Easy Day.  I was thinking.... shit, I've regressed!  

I only have the feedback from my friend, Dierdre, who came here intending to lead some 10a's and did, indeed, try.  She had just climbed a descent route on El Cap... by jumar mostly.  I do not think Dierdre enjoyed any part of climbing here. It's dirtier, harder, requires all kinds of skill that she wasn't expecting.  I cannot compare the two experiences (Josh and her El Cap route)... maybe ya'll can?  But as for 'leisurely'... I imagine a pleasant running brook with some cows in a pasture, with a gently sloping multi-pitch--maybe a field of blueberries up on top... a nice picnic lunch... if I find such a route, I'll be sure and climb it.  :-)

I think Brandt and others may disagree with me, because they are much stronger climbers.  

Not true! These days I'm very happy if I can get up anything harder than 5.8.

phylp phylpwrote:

Musings on travel vs being home:

Since I moved down here on retiring 9 years ago, I've figured out my optimal schedule for being on the road vs. being at home.  I love road trips and they typically last 10 days to 2 weeks.  More than that and I start to feel unhappy.  Once home, I'm happy to be there for about 2.5 - 3 weeks.  Then I start to get a bit antsy and want to hit the road again.  Of course, while at home, there are day trips to climb, or even 2 day trips to Joshua Tree, but that doesn't satisfy the road trip urge.

I got back from CoR on June 22 and was supposed to leave on an east coast trip on July 6.  But then my husband had a terrible road bike crash and it was impossible to leave him.  Needed to help him bathe and eat and dole out the pain meds.  (I thought of Randy out on his bike so much, after that accident - bikes seem more dangerous to me than climbing!)  By the time I left on Aug 1st on my Mammoth trip, I had been going completely stir crazy!  6 weeks at home was too much!

Everybody must have their own internal timer.  Curious about if other people have that internal clock that gets them on the road...

When working I traveled internationally 60-70% of the time.  In 1998 I slept on flights to Europe and Asia 31 nights and decided it was time to cash out.  For the next few years I didn't want to travel, then wanderlust slowly returned.  Now travel about 50% of the time and 3-4 weeks at home is about all I can handle----except if it's ski season and the powder is awesome.

phylp phylpwrote:

Thank you, everybody.  Us too, many of his bike friends both road and mtn. have had bad crashes.  His was when someone in the front of the group dropped a water bottle and people right in front of him swerved, and he swerved not to hit them, and went down.  Concussion, broken collarbone, 9 broken ribs.  He has no memory of the accident. Bone not fully healed yet but he has gotten out on the bike a bit this week.  They said it's OK as long as he doesn't crash.

Yeouch!!! Sorry to hear that. Having had a few cracked ribs at one time and the length of time they hurt before they got better, that really sucks. Hope it goes quickly.

People going down in front of you is the worst way to go. I've had a couple of wrecks from that... one in 1989 while biking across Kansas (yes... I said Kansas - luckily it was the direction with the wind) that jacked one thumb and gave me a giant road rash on my shoulder, and one local group ride where a guy just wiped out in front of a bunch of us at 20+ mph. I sorta rolled into his back (no choice no time) with the brakes on full, somehow managed to exit the bike over the handlebars as it rotated over him and ended up standing unscratched in the middle of the road with various other riders spread out in an impressive display of carnage. I felt very lucky. Mountain biking is fairly low-surprise by comparison.

When I had surgery to fix my bad shoulder (now the good-bad shoulder), the doc finally let me road bike (he was adamant about NO mountain biking until I was completely healed) with the admonition that I NEVER wreck. For a while, after every ride, my shoulder would ache from just supporting my upper body. Good times.    

Greg Oplandwrote:

Yeouch!!! Sorry to hear that. Having had a few cracked ribs at one time and the length of time they hurt before they got better, that really sucks. Hope it goes quickly.

People going down in front of you is the worst way to go. I've had a couple of wrecks from that... one in 1989 while biking across Kansas (yes... I said Kansas - luckily it was the direction with the wind) that jacked one thumb and gave me a giant road rash on my shoulder, and one local group ride where a guy just wiped out in front of a bunch of us at 20+ mph. I sorta rolled into his back (no choice no time) with the brakes on full, somehow managed to exit the bike over the handlebars as it rotated over him and ended up standing unscratched in the middle of the road with various other riders spread out in an impressive display of carnage. I felt very lucky. Mountain biking is fairly low-surprise by comparison.

When I had surgery to fix my bad shoulder (now the good-bad shoulder), the doc finally let me road bike (he was adamant about NO mountain biking until I was completely healed) with the admonition that I NEVER wreck. For a while, after every ride, my shoulder would ache from just supporting my upper body. Good times.    

Sometimes it’s people going down behind you that take you out. One of my worst crashes was about 500m from the line, final sprint, and a girl crashed behind me, caught my rear wheel with her handlebars, and spun me around so I was facing the field (still upright for that brief moment). That one sucked cause I for sure was going to win that race (older I get faster I was) - ha ha. Plus I broke my wrist. And wrecked a new wheel set. Oh memories. Love cycling, hate crashing. Phylp - hope Michael is feeling a whole lot better and back on his bike. 

Phylp, man... I'm so sorry to read of your husband's accident. I hope he gets better soon, and under your good care I'm sure he will.  But, ouch... ribs.  It hurts to think about it.    

I've only known 2 people who mountain bike... a friend who took it up recently, and on first day threw himself over the handlebars and broke his clavicle.  So, when I saw him his arm was in a sling, and he was in a lot of pain.  The other was my daughter.  When I came by for a visit she had to pre-empt out conversation by saying "Mom, Allen did not beat me.  I just took a fall on my mountain bike."  She was in bad shape.  So.... it's a no for me.  

I meant to post this picture for Todd.  I came upon this boulder and immediately thought of Todd... I looked at it from all angles, if I were stronger/better climber I'm sure it would be fun.  So, when you visit Joshua Tree, I can take you  

I'm heading to court this morning... and Tony and I have decided to get a kill dog.  Gidget Louise was my grand dog, who became 'my' dog eventually, and a true guru to me.  My daughter rescued her just 6 hours prior to her scheduled execution.  I was totally against this rescue, because this dog was 'tore up from the floor up', as they say.  She was miserable, 14 pounds, had been beaten and neglected.  She had apparently been fed exclusively Big Macs and lost her mind any time we drove by a Golden Arches.  But my daughter picked her up, and drove her immediately to the vet who removed all of her rotted teeth.  And from there, still high on pain meds... took her to the groomer, who did their best to clean her up, and stuck two little green bows to her head.  

Once she recovered, she had a zest for living that I've never seen in any person or animal since.  She was up for any party.  If she smelled a barbeque at a neighbor's house, she would somehow get out and trot on down for a bite of steak and shrimp.  She was pure joy and gratitude.  I did not realize she was also a water dog... it was just seconds after this picture was taken that she did a swan dive into the North Fork of the American river and played in the water with us for hours.  She could even swim underwater.  

So... I think we'll get a Pom.

I'm approaching retirement, probably within 1-to-2 years.  Obviously going over finances and beginning to really figure out sources of income.  Since this group is similarly aged (!) I figured I would ask the question, "what do folks do to supplement SS, investment income, etc?" 

I've had a side hustle for a while; mostly a break-even hobby of building surfboards. Maybe I can parlay that into something steady?

Thanks.

It sounds strange to say I'm "enjoying" all these "good" accident stories from Erika, Guy, Greg, Gunkie, Frank et al.  Of course none of the stories are good.  The good part is that you all lived and survived without life-changing injuries.  Of course the terrible and frightening aspect is that many people don't survive, or end up with TBI or spinal injuries, or losing a limb. I think telling the stories is our way of expressing our gratitude that things weren't worse, that it's in the past.  That you were lucky.  That it's a story and not an ongoing pain.  For me, telling the story is, I'm still processing the trauma of what if.  After he was off the pain meds and well enough to drive himself to the coffee shops where the group meets up after rides, he's come home and tell me, oh, so-and-so came up to me and said "Mike, great to see you, when I saw you unconscious at the crash I thought you were dead". Half a dozen people have said the same thing.  

Oddly, I've had more serious injuries over the years from climbing accidents than he has cycling.  But somehow, in my mind, I feel like I'm safe and he is the one in danger.

OK, enough of dwelling on that topic.  I'm looking forward to pics of Lori's new attack Pomeranian.

Over 40 years climbing. One pulley tendon, a few tweaked shoulders and nasty bruise on my hip belaying. All my real injuries are from working, bycycl wreck.and skiing and street racing motorcycles.. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Over 40 years climbing. One pulley tendon, a few tweaked shoulders and nasty bruise on my hip belaying. All my real injuries are from working, bycycl wreck.and skiing and street racing motorcycles.. 

Like Nick, my real injuries have come from mountain biking and skiing.  Climbing?  Not much, except for a nasty laceration from a falling rock that luckily was small.

Man, I'm struggling today.  I feel like my heart is breaking.  I just stood next to my neighbor at the courthouse, while a TRO was awarded, and hearing set for September.  He doesn't look good, and I'm just tragically sad for him.  

It was just the luck of the draw that we moved next to this guy (and the guy next to him).  We were careful about the neighborhood and right away I liked our neighbor... 51 years old, tall, really nice guy. But I could tell he was struggling... and I watched weeks go by without his curtains ever opening, not seeing him leave the house.  And what he was telling us, the stories about his past would make you know that you don't just walk away from all that.  

In December my neighbor came banging on our door at 2 a.m.--Tony didn't open the door but wondered if someone might be dead on our front porch.  When I opened the door that morning, not dead... but pools of blood on our porch, door, stucco walls... blood everywhere.  He had shot himself and come to our house, I guess, and when we didn't answer he drove himself to the hospital, but then left AMA.  Now there's not a day when I don't open the front door slowly, in case he is there dead, or wounded.  

I have not yet seen a solution, of any kind, to drug addiction and mental illness.  If there was, I'd back it up.  I'm just sad today.  

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To gunkie X... I'll bite. It's taken me some time to really dig in and figure this whole thing out.  I'm 1000% on it now.  I knew that without my previous income some things would have to change... but I didn't nail it down like I had planned.  So much has happened over the last 3 years that I never could create a real budget--there was always some kind of additional spending needed.

But now that it has my full attention I'm really committed to lightening the load... and that in every way, not just financially.  This is a great time to figure out what's really important to me, what's not.  I just threw all my expenses and purchases for the last 12 months (even the $2 ATM debits, etc) onto Quickbooks, in catagories, so I could see where money is going.  With all of that info now in reportable format, I'm looking at the numbers.  I'm making a project of slicing away everything that is wasteful, non-essential... doesn't even bring joy.  There's a lot of spending this last year that is actually insulting.  There's a store called Gelson's in Palm Springs... exhibit A.    

I really don't want to be a Walmart greeter for that extra income.  I think I can get spending way down, and not miss a beat.  Lots to discuss here, if anyone cares to join in.  :-) 

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Sitting on a perch nearby yesterday I couldn't help but notice this crack.  

So, this must be the famous Yabo on Fisticuffs. I'm sure there must be some stories here. 

I want to do that.  :-)

Lori Milaswrote:

Randy... I wanted to thank you for your suggestions.  The written word isn't always as easy as just sitting face to face... so I guess we have to deal with clarifications.  Tell me if I have this... 

What I THINK you are saying is that mileage, in terms of many easy/moderate routes, is the best way to develop automatic insight and muscle memory/technique in climbing (along with endurance and strength, of course).  

White Room 5.9

I don't know if anyone has climbed this since Bob Gaines and Alan Bartlett put it up in 1992.  The challenge for me would just be getting to it... being comfortable with a 2-pitch route, and being possibly stuck there for part of a day.  It's a short route.  It will take some slab skills on possibly the most beautiful sheet of rock in the area.   The other consideration is whether Bob will want to bother with this.  I would totally understand if he just said he didn't want to do this.  It's also my opportunity to acquire some trad skills... self-rescue wise. 

I only have the feedback from my friend, Dierdre, who came here intending to lead some 10a's and did, indeed, try.  She had just climbed a descent route on El Cap... by jumar mostly.  I do not think Dierdre enjoyed any part of climbing here. It's dirtier, harder, requires all kinds of skill that she wasn't expecting.  I cannot compare the two experiences (Josh and her El Cap route)... maybe ya'll can?  But as for 'leisurely'... I imagine a pleasant running brook with some cows in a pasture, with a gently sloping multi-pitch--maybe a field of blueberries up on top... a nice picnic lunch... if I find such a route, I'll be sure and climb it.  :-)

Just a suggestion: If you are going to finally crack into multi pitch routes at J-tree why not get on a classic like Right On or Walk on the Wildside? They're both amazing and far below 5.9 level. I'm also a fan of the Moosedog Tower in Indian Cove for breaking people into multi-pitch.

Re. Deirdre's experience. Not to take anything away from her, but jumaring up a rope is ascending El Cap. It's not "climbing El Cap." Still cool that she did it but no wonder she didn't like J-tree, she wasn't even touching rock on El Cap...

Almost all rescued dogs have a special lust for life where as most dogs from (in) breeders and puppy farms are dumb as hell and just add to the problem of rescue shelters being filled to the brim. 

My worst accidents have definitely been on bikes and motorcycles (broken bones+road rash on the hips and knuckles), climbing 30+ years with one finger injury and also like Nick, a giant bruise on my hip/glute from belaying. I've cracked ribs from drunken wrestling and sailing, all I can say is please don't make me laugh when the ribs are injured!

M Mwrote:

Almost all rescued dogs have a special lust for life where as most dogs from (in) breeders and puppy farms are dumb as hell and just add to the problem of rescue shelters being filled to the brim. 

What about breeder dogs that then get rescued? Dumb with lust for life? Asking for a friend...

Went bouldering by myself today because everyone else in the crew is too soft to climb four days out of five. 

Flashed three Purples but didn’t feel strong. My blood pressure tablets may be effecting me. Ended up trying to make up my own boulder by joining three together, ending in a comical fall.
https://youtu.be/7XEhV2h2ALs?si=sKRc9m7nPHKW0URi

Andrew Ricewrote:

What about breeder dogs that then get rescued? Dumb with lust for life? Asking for a friend...

How much did you pay for your doodle? Asking for a friend.

While out for my hike this morning I realized that summer vacay may be officially over as of today.  I am planning to drive to Sac tomorrow and stay a little while.  It's hard to leave.

I hiked out by Barker Dam, and I have been so focused on somehow climbing all three faces of Hunk Rock I never bothered to walk around to the back side.  There's a long dihedral that looks like a lot of fun, but hard on the hips.

Walking over to Jan and Dave's work of art, An Eye For An Eye and a Route For a Route it's really something to glance over to my right and see this massive wall just looking so perfect for climbing.  Thanks to Jan for suggesting it.  :-)

A little further on, I didn't expect this.  Had I known, I would have brought a swimsuit!!!  I feel pretty sure there's fish in there, and Bob can bring his fishing pole and catch big tuna while I go free solo An Eye For An Eye.   

I have been looking at this rock, wondering what that traverse is... will have to look it up.  

Just a nice morning, and now to start getting ready for a new climbing season... :-) 

had my coloscapy yesterday. (reminder that we are all old here) won't know the results until I get a snail mail letter in 3 weeks.  its the North east Kingdom.. back in central VT I would have gone to Dartmouth and the results would be in my patient portal by now... 

Hint to Lori: Death of a Decade, 5.10a, and Rat Rock.

This is the work in progress by my friend Doyle Moyer.  We met one day when I was out climbing at Comic Book and he was waving to me from the trail.  Fast friends ever  since.