New Video: Complete Bigwall system - Freesnake method

Howdy mtn project!

Big wall season is just around the corner. I finally got around to making a video about my updated wall systems. I've been using this system on all my wall climbs the last 4 years or so. It makes rope management on walls much simpler and more enjoyable. I hope you enjoy and can take what like you from my system and implement into your own. I'm also in the process of writing an article on this for my website which will include the video. Currently the other tech article is about Fix and Follow, which I'll also link here. 

Enjoy!

Christian

https://youtu.be/ZZuDTKIDptc?si=e8lq6mPlDAYZWTHF

https://www.freesnakeclimbing.com/advanced-climbing-systems/freesnake-fix-and-follow

"30% opacity" ??!!  And I thought *I* was a nerd. 

Nice video Christian. Good job. 

Very nice! I've been using these systems for a few years now. One difference I have is I clip an inverted ascender to a ladder and use that to create the cache loop. It keeps the anchor a little clearer. 

I highly recommend FaF for the first half of RNWF of Half Dome. Instead of making your second jug with a heavy pack, you both get to free climb pack-less. 

Suggesting putting two followers on one rope while fix and following seems like a bad idea.  I can imagine a scenario in which it might be a viable way to tackle a route or a section of a route, but it'd have to have a ton of caveats in order for it to make sense.  Given how nuanced and/or sketchy it is, (depending on your perspective) it seems like a weird thing to include in a basic instructional blog post.

Max Tepferwrote:

Suggesting putting two followers on one rope while fix and following seems like a bad idea.  I can imagine a scenario in which it might be a viable way to tackle a route or a section of a route, but it'd have to have a ton of caveats in order for it to make sense.  Given how nuanced and/or sketchy it is, (depending on your perspective) it seems like a weird thing to include in a basic instructional blog post.

Only certain scenarios for sure, but I’ve also used it a ton with great success. I agree the user needs to be critical of when it makes sense. That’s why it’s in “Advanced Climbing Systems” and clearly labeled with caveats. 

Max Tepferwrote:

Suggesting putting two followers on one rope while fix and following seems like a bad idea.  I can imagine a scenario in which it might be a viable way to tackle a route or a section of a route, but it'd have to have a ton of caveats in order for it to make sense.  Given how nuanced and/or sketchy it is, (depending on your perspective) it seems like a weird thing to include in a basic instructional blog post.

I'd be curious to hear what concerns/scary experiences folks have had with 2 followers fixing and following on one rope. I've used FaF quite a lot with a team of two and have always thought it would be a great tool for a team of three. It seems to me that having two folks, each with two devices, on the same rope would be just fine, except for perhaps some tugging if one person were to weight the system. However, the thought always gave me the creeps (probably irrationally), and I've heard other experienced climbers voice concerns like Max's. 

Captain Snowbootswrote:

I'd be curious to hear what concerns/scary experiences folks have had with 2 followers fixing and following on one rope. I've used FaF quite a lot with a team of two and have always thought it would be a great tool for a team of three. It seems to me that having two folks, each with two devices, on the same rope would be just fine, except for perhaps some tugging if one person were to weight the system. However, the thought always gave me the creeps (probably irrationally), and I've heard other experienced climbers voice concerns like Max's. 

I think the main concerns would be: traversing/slight traverse pitches, making sure there are adequate directionals for all followers, and choosing a climb where it’s not at the max difficulty of followers so that falling is held to a minimum. I’ve used it party of 3 free climbing on el cap, red rocks, and various alpine routes and it’s always been great. It adds a lot of efficiency to only have one rope to manage in a party of 3. 

Christian Blackwrote:

I think the main concerns would be: traversing/slight traverse pitches, making sure there are adequate directionals for all followers, and choosing a climb where it’s not at the max difficulty of followers so that falling is held to a minimum. I’ve used it party of 3 free climbing on el cap, red rocks, and various alpine routes and it’s always been great. It adds a lot of efficiency to only have one rope to manage in a party of 3. 

Yeah, the faffery of bringing two ropes to FaF with three people (or belaying the 2nd while the 3rd fix and follows) always seemed to defeat the purpose of the whole thing. As you say, Christian, probably better to belay anything with a stopper crux, but this seems to be more in service of efficiency and enjoyment than safety. 

Edit: also, thanks for the article. Using the primary device off the personal tether is a nice wrinkle I hadn't seen before. 

Christian Blackwrote:

I think the main concerns would be: traversing/slight traverse pitches, making sure there are adequate directionals for all followers, and choosing a climb where it’s not at the max difficulty of followers so that falling is held to a minimum.

These are the types of caveats that seem like you'd want to include as opposed to a single sentence about traversing.  Also, it's not listed under any form of 'advanced technique' on your blog post, rather under 'variations.'  IMO it's a much sharper tool than basic fix and follow which I actually think is really safe and efficient if done well.  It's cool you've had success with it, but have you thoroughly tested it and learned its limits?  Just using a technique and not experiencing a bad outcome doesn't mean doing so didn't expose you to increased risk.

I think the main reason I'm not a fan is the potential to have two people weighting the rope simultaneously.  Putting two people on a single rope in proper 5th class terrain just seems excessively aggressive if there's any sort of likelihood of them actually whipping.  Sure, it's relatively unlikely that they're both going to whip at the same time and repeatedly, but this sort of stuff is all about building adequate margins and it feels like the margins are a lot narrower with this variation of the system.  I tend not to climb routes with parties of three if time is of the essence for exactly these reasons.

Adam Flemingwrote:

Very nice! I've been using these systems for a few years now. One difference I have is I clip an inverted ascender to a ladder and use that to create the cache loop. It keeps the anchor a little clearer. 

I highly recommend FaF for the first half of RNWF of Half Dome. Instead of making your second jug with a heavy pack, you both get to free climb pack-less. 

Hey Adam, in 2nd paragraph, are u talmbout the follower dangling the pack below on end of lead line while TRSing and hauling once at anchor?  Or 2 rope system and pack gets hauled while follower TRS’s?  Thanks!

I dig the video Christian, thanks for sharing!

Nathan Mwrote:

Hey Adam, in 2nd paragraph, are u talmbout the follower dangling the pack below on end of lead line while TRSing and hauling once at anchor?  Or 2 rope system and pack gets hauled while follower TRS’s?  Thanks!

I dig the video Christian, thanks for sharing!

Two ropes! 

I haven't done it with just one rope (though that is an option). I'm too concerned with the pack getting hung up and not having anyone to free it. Also, with two ropes the leader is able to refuel food and drink while the second climbs. Plus using only one rope requires you to pull up all the lead rope each pitch instead of using the cache method Christian demonstrated. 

Max Tepferwrote:

These are the types of caveats that seem like you'd want to include as opposed to a single sentence about traversing.  Also, it's not listed under any form of 'advanced technique' on your blog post, rather under 'variations.'  IMO it's a much sharper tool than basic fix and follow which I actually think is really safe and efficient if done well.  It's cool you've had success with it, but have you thoroughly tested it and learned its limits?  Just using a technique and not experiencing a bad outcome doesn't mean doing so didn't expose you to increased risk.

I think the main reason I'm not a fan is the potential to have two people weighting the rope simultaneously.  Putting two people on a single rope in proper 5th class terrain just seems excessively aggressive if there's any sort of likelihood of them actually whipping.  Sure, it's relatively unlikely that they're both going to whip at the same time and repeatedly, but this sort of stuff is all about building adequate margins and it feels like the margins are a lot narrower with this variation of the system.  I tend not to climb routes with parties of three if time is of the essence for exactly these reasons.

I hear ya, thanks for the feedback. I updated it with those caveats and considerations. The article is listed under the “Advanced climbing systems” tab on the website is what I meant.

As far as the safety of two followers on one rope, I see no difference in having two followers fix and follow rather than one being tied in 10m above the other and getting a traditional belay. In fact in I think it’s safer since the lowest person can’t pull of the middle person.

Again I’ll emphasize, the very first caveat listed in the article is “New Climbers”. Everyone should definitely climb with systems they feel safe, comfortable and understand fully. I’m not recommending this technique for every scenario, just a tool in the toolbox for some cases

Why not clip the backup knot in the haul line into the carabiner below the inverted hauling device on top of your pig?  

Peter Zabrokwrote:

Why not clip the backup knot in the haul line into the carabiner below the inverted hauling device on top of your pig?  

That is what I actually do now, I just took these videos like two years ago. I have a note that pops up in the video saying “backup knot can be clipped to haul bag for added security.”

good catch!

{Dr. Piton takes an exaggerated bow}

That is quality content. Nice job with it   

Cheers from Osaka,

John 

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

Careful, men younger than you have thrown their backs out doing that. 

No doubt, eh?  I seem to be becoming more and more decrepit with each passing wall season.  

do you still need a bottle to protect the microtrax over the haulbag?

Ryan PKwrote:

do you still need a bottle to protect the microtrax over the haulbag?

If your hauling is free hanging no protector is necessary, but if you have any slabbier hauling the micro can get pretty thrashed. We chose to use one after some low angle hauling did a number on our micro. Also, if using the Edelrid Spoc the toothed cam protrudes from the device quite a bit more than the petzl micro so I feel a little better about having a protector for those slabbier hauls. You can still use this system as designed with a protector. Just slide it up out of the way when you need to manage the tail end of the haul.