JTree Hobbit Hole Bonfires: Rangers Seeking Information

Seems like the post is more interested in propagation, than actually finding out what happened. Certainly out of the loop with their accusations. This “photo evidence” was gathered over 8 months ago, and the photos above are two completely different areas. The Joshua Tree community knows better, and have always done their best to take care of the land. As a result the park has turned a blind eye until now. A needless visit by the fire department to extinguish a well contained fire has caused a lot of damage in the recent past. Fires outside of designated areas are illegal, organizing and attending parties is not. This goose chase is organized by people who are out of touch with the culture and community of the park. 

“Out of touch with the culture and community of the Park”…

I understand there is nostalgia for BITD, but things change and the reality is that the hugely increased numbers of people who flock to the Park have caused progressively more negative impact to the natural resources.

The Park and before that, the Monument, have for a very long time been under Federal jurisdiction. Given the horrific devastation caused by the York fire, I don’t think the goal of preventing illegal campfires, nevermind bonfires, is an overeach by the authorities, going forward. 

Donald Thompson wrote:

Imagine archaeologists hundreds of years from now uncovering these illegal fires, puzzling over them, then at the end of the day declaring them officially protected archaeological sites.

This.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118586489/rock-art-disrespected-at-josh

phylp phylp wrote:

“Out of touch with the culture and community of the Park”…

I understand there is nostalgia for BITD, but things change and the reality is that the hugely increased numbers of people who flock to the Park have caused progressively more negative impact to the natural resources.

The Park and before that, the Monument, have for a very long time been under Federal jurisdiction. Given the horrific devastation caused by the York fire, I don’t think the goal of preventing illegal campfires, nevermind bonfires, is an overeach by the authorities, going forward. 

Actually, this.

Donald Thompson wrote:

Imagine archaeologists hundreds of years from now uncovering these illegal fires, puzzling over them, then at the end of the day declaring them officially protected archaeological sites.

And grid bolted sport routes could one day be ancient artifacts, so let's retrobolt all the runouts and walk offs?

I like runouts and walk offs and I am steadfastly agin gridding-up any crag. Still it might be only honest to leave a few  examples for future archaeologists lest they get the wrong ideas about us.

Joshua Tree Ranger Zach Olson wrote:

If you have any information regarding past "Hobbit Hole Fires" please contact lead investigator Olson using the information below.  If you have any knowledge about future planned fires, please call the Federal Interagency Communications Center at (909) 383-5651.  

Protection Ranger Olson (Off Thurs-Sat)

zachary_olson@nps.gov

Yo Zachary Olson you and everyone you work with is kinda stupid if you can't see a connecting theme in when these parties take place. You should be fired. What a waste of OUR TAX MONEY. 

Donald Thompson wrote:

Imagine archaeologists hundreds of years from now uncovering these illegal fires, puzzling over them, then at the end of the day declaring them officially protected archaeological sites.

Imagine the Southern California desert being a livable area hundreds of years from now.

SoCal Choss wrote:

Yo Zachary Olson you and everyone you work with is kinda stupid if you can't see a connecting theme in when these parties take place. You should be fired. What a waste of OUR TAX MONEY. 

420? The 5th of November?

SoCal Choss wrote:

Yo Zachary Olson you and everyone you work with is kinda stupid if you can't see a connecting theme in when these parties take place. You should be fired. What a waste of OUR TAX MONEY. 

17 years they say according to satellite imagery, 20+ if you believe the comments. No problem until Zach and his crew had to clean a firepit that hadn't caused problems for 20 years and called it "a sensitive archeological site". Something tells me our ancestors were doing something more similar to the folks at the firepit than  the "law enforcement" rangers. 

What was so sensitive that you didn't notice a 20 year old fire ring next to it? Or is it really just too many people gathered in a random spot in a massive desert that didn't pay for a group permit? Otherwise you just have a bunch of public people on public land doing public things. 

If the issue is a fire in a dry July with no fire ban, start the fire ban earlier. 

I'd lean towards full moons and the latest shipment of shrooms myself

Thank you, JTLE. 

I don't get the "but we used to be able to do that" from some.  Not terribly long ago, before Joshua Tree was just a Monument, folks used to come into the area a set Joshua Trees on fire just for sport.  Yeah, we used to be able to do that.  But we collectively let it go.

Time to let go of these bonfires outside of official fire rings.  And get the word out when they do occur.

Bill Lawry wrote:

Thank you, JTLE. 

I don't get the "but we used to be able to do that" from some.  Not terribly long ago, before Joshua Tree was just a Monument, folks used to come into the area a set Joshua Trees on fire just for sport.  Yeah, we used to be able to do that.  But we collectively let it go.

Time to let go of these bonfires outside of official fire rings.  And get the word out when they do occur.

You mean like this one that is at least 17 years old? I've seen more grizzly crime scenes in Bel Air. 

Marc H wrote:

Imagine the Southern California desert being a livable area hundreds of years from now.

I can imagine that, but I can also imagine the opposite. What I cannot imagine is an ideologically- driven narrative having such control over my thought processes that it gives me the magical ability to know what will happen with certitude hundreds of years into the future.

Some further clarification. These gathering were held very responsibly. All trash picked up, very little impact to the area. If you walked by the area the next day, you would never guess what had happened the night before. 

Kinda surprised how gullible mp can be to believe LEOs description of what happened.

j tree wrote:

Some further clarification. These gathering were held very responsibly. All trash picked up, very little impact to the area. If you walked by the area the next day, you would never guess what had happened the night before. 

Kinda surprised how gullible mp can be to believe LEOs description of what happened.

Hmm, tell you what: I may hold off on buying everything at face value from an anon acct that just joined yesterday too. 

^^^That.

My concern in all this is that the volume and spread of grasses and other foliage in every climbing area I have been at this year in CA is unprecedented in my memory. I was astounded at the amount in Joshua Tree this spring the times I was there. It’s not just southern CA. The areas around Alabama Hills and the ORG were exploded with foliage by May. A few days ago I went into Clark Canyon and the approach trail was like a savannah with 4 foot high dry grasses - I’ve never seen anything like that there.

And it’s all gotten to be very dead and very dry. 

William K wrote:

Hmm, tell you what: I may hold off on buying everything at face value from an anon acct that just joined yesterday too. 

Fair enough, perhaps the ranger can post some pictures of the "permanent damage" or other mess left behind and prove me wrong. 

The Cave People Oogabooga wrote:

 I feel it’s more pertinent to mention that a Law Enforcement Ranger back in the day encouraged parties here, instead of the Don Juan Boulder, as it was lower impact, and safer for the people who attended. No one has ever made a fuss until now. 

How the hell did anybody who works for the park think this was a good idea?  Last time I checked park rangers wear name tags.  Who the hell was this?