sleeping at a trailhead

Guess like everything it depends who you ask. Thanks for the input.

I heard that rangers can’t read and don’t know how to use the internet.  What kind of car you driving?

He is basing his opinion on his past experience and you are basing your opinion on your future projecting anxieties.  There is no way to know who will be right.  What is the worst case scenario?  You get rousted and have to drive outside the Park and crash on the other side.  If that happens, you get to silently (not out loud) say  "I told you so". Partner arguments should probably be reserved for life and death decisions about the climb itself.  If in the future you find yourself continually in contention with this person, he may not be the best fit for you.

Although not in California, I have gotten in late and slept at a trailhead in my Corolla for pretty much every single alpine start I've ever done here in Colorado over the last 6 years and have never once been woken up (regardless of whether it's explicitly allowed or not). I get more sleep that way as opposed to having to wake up in the middle of the night to drive a long way, and I prefer starting the day off hiking as opposed to driving in the dark. That being said, idk how long your drive is to the trailhead and I've had climbing partners that prefer the other way around.

It does seem like you are over-reacting a bit. You're not gonna get charged with a felony if you get woken up, most likely they'll just ask you to gtfo or worst case you'll get a small fine (I'd be baffled if this happened). I have never seen rangers patrolling lots in the middle of the night. I did have a partner that was uncomfortable with sleeping at a trailhead where it probably wasn't allowed and at the end of the day I slept in my car, he woke up early and drove, and we met up at the lot in the morning. It doesn't really seem like that big of a deal.

Tuolumne? I'm sure some can still get away with it. But I've witnessed park rangers busting some "trailhead" campers at Fairview Dome, more than once, at right around 6 am.

Keep in mind the road was repaved and new curbs installed, last year. So some old tyme pulloffs may no longer be in play. If you bed down close enough to see your car, you're close enough to be seen from the window of a ranger's pickup.

Shay Subramanianwrote:

Although not in California, I have gotten in late and slept at a trailhead in my Corolla for pretty much every single alpine start I've ever done here in Colorado over the last 6 years and have never once been woken up (regardless of whether it's explicitly allowed or not). .... I have never seen rangers patrolling lots in the middle of the night.

This is true most places in the west, including most of the Sierra. But in the Yosemite National Police State it can be a somewhat different situation, and reasonable expectations from elsewhere may not apply.

JCMwrote:

This is true most places in the west, including most of the Sierra. But in the Yosemite National Police State it can be a somewhat different situation, and reasonable expectations from elsewhere may not apply.

Fair point - I have no experience with YNPS, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt! 

phylp phylpwrote:

Partner arguments should probably be reserved for life and death decisions about the climb itself.  If in the future you find yourself continually in contention with this person, he may not be the best fit for you.

Sage advise right there. :)

I know they give out speeding tickets after midnight in Tuolumne. 

I know they give out speeding tickets after midnight in Tuolumne.

  Me too!

Rangers have always taken a dim view of people camping at trailheads. If your partner's vehicle doesn't look too much like a camper you might get away with it, but if you get caught it will cost you. Like abandon moderation said, just bivy right outside the gate and drive in in the morning.

Delete this thread dude this is a terrible look. If you were my partner lined up I’d be out immediately. He’s telling you what’s worked for him in the past and you’ve never even been there before. Then you go onto climbings most public forum with thousands of views daily and tell the world that the dude who is about to gun you up tuolumne domes “is going to camp illegally!!!!” Obviously no one is stupid enough to come on here and say otherwise and ruin it for everyone else, although I never would have thought someone would ask like this either.

This is gross, delete it.  

Tanner Jameswrote:

delete this thread dude this is a terrible look. If you were my partner lined up I’d be out immediately. He’s telling you what’s worked for him in the past and you’ve never been there before. Then you go onto climbings most public forum with thousands of views daily and tell the world that the dude who is about to gun you up tuolumne domes “is going to camp illegally!!!!”

this is gross, take it down. 

Tanner,

The park service is aware this happens frequently, so this thread isn't revealing a secret. The OP doesn't feel right camping illegally, so he's asking about it. Doesn't matter if it has worked for his partner; the OP is uncomfortable with it

Connor Halewrote:

I am going climbing in Tuolumne this weekend with an old timer who I met at a local climbing gym, who used to climb in the valley and Tuolumne 15+ years ago. He is insistent that we can just go in late at night, park at a trailhead, sleep for a few hours, and if we are gone by 6am rangers wouldn’t be a problem. I think they absolutely would be a problem, and have gone as far as getting a wilderness permit for one day and offering dispersed camping options up big oak road for the other day, yet he seems equally insistent that we don’t need to. I have never been to Tuolumne but have spent a lot of time in the valley in The last few years.

Whose right? Am I over reacting?

This is standard for “real” climbers, you’re the crazy one.

FrankPSwrote:

 Doesn't matter if it has worked for his partner; the OP is uncomfortable with it

Then camp somewhere else? If you’re old enough to belay another human you should be capable of making that decision. That’s the lowest and most basic form of risk tolerance a climber could possibly  choose on any climbing trip and he is calling his partner out and being a snitch at the same time. I understand park service knows it happens but this is an awful look. Everyone speeds but I won’t be chatting with my local pd about when and where I plan to do it next 

It’s so easy to not do what your buddy suggests. Get your non paranoid zzzs just outside the entrance. 

Connor Halewrote:

Guess like everything it depends who you ask. Thanks for the input.

Wait, he wasn’t suggesting zipping your sleeping bags together was he?

Tradibanwrote:

Wait, he wasn’t suggesting zipping your sleeping bags together was he?

He said we had to huddle together for warmth on those cold high country nights. I just figured he knew best..

Other note: the bigger issue here isn't whether you sleep at the trailhead or not, but rather that your prospective climbing partner doesn't seem to respect what you are comfortable doing. If that extends to climbing also (not just illegal camping), that's potentially a big problem. Especially somewhere with a lot of built-in risk in the climbing, like Tuolumne. 

You probably want a different climbing partner.

JCMwrote:

Other note: the bigger issue here isn't whether you sleep at the trailhead or not, but rather that your prospective climbing partner doesn't seem to respect what you are comfortable doing. If that extends to climbing also (not just illegal camping), that's potentially a big problem. Especially somewhere with a lot of built-in risk in the climbing, like Tuolumne. 

You probably want a different climbing partner.

Extrapolate much?

I wouldn't in tuolumne.  I've been rousted at lake Mary TH at about 5:45 before.  Ranger was not happy but didn't ticket us or kick us out of the park.