People stuck on Casual?

It’s not only gumbies or rich people who need rescue.  Stuff happens, weather happens. So ridiculous to pretend like any of you know the exact circumstances. 

And pure ego to imagine it’s never possible for YOU to need a rescue. 

Here's the congruence we've been awaiting: https://denvergazette.com/outtherecolorado/news/11-hour-rescue-mission-saves-dog-stuck-on-13-939-foot-colorado-peak/article_a9aec720-200a-11ee-a990-9ba4dad1f525.amp.html

The search and rescue team also noted that they do "not condone any negativity toward subjects." The individual did the right thing by calling for help given his own deteriorating condition and the need for the rescue of the dog. Thankfully teams were available to help. Calling for help is always the right move, as continuing to struggle can often make a bad situation worse.  

This doesn’t appear to be the same rescue as the OP at all?

Interesting none the less.

Highlights how SAR folks are happy to do the work they are needed for. 

Alex Fletcherwrote:

This doesn’t appear to be the same rescue as the OP at all?

Obviously not.

Interesting none the less.

Esp when you take the dog threads and the "pay for 'unnecessary' rescues" threads into account, with the bravado responses from the Fighting 101st Keyboard Battalion.

Highlights how SAR folks are happy to do the work they are needed for. 

Exactly!

Marc801 Cwrote:

Here's the congruence we've been awaiting: https://denvergazette.com/outtherecolorado/news/11-hour-rescue-mission-saves-dog-stuck-on-13-939-foot-colorado-peak/article_a9aec720-200a-11ee-a990-9ba4dad1f525.amp.html

Ok, ok. Compromise: All dog rescues must be paid for by their owners.

Harry Kwrote:

It’s not only gumbies or rich people who need rescue.  Stuff happens, weather happens. So ridiculous to pretend like any of you know the exact circumstances. 

And pure ego to imagine it’s never possible for YOU to need a rescue. 

Common misconception. Shit doesn’t just happen, mistakes were made somewhere along in the process. People often go against their better judgement for their ego, almost all accidents are easily preventable.

Tradibanwrote:

...almost all accidents are easily preventable.

...in retrospect on the internet.

Tradibanwrote:

Common misconception. Shit doesn’t just happen, mistakes were made somewhere along in the process. People often go against their better judgement for their ego, almost all accidents are easily preventable.

Well, yeah, if you stay at home in bed all day, though even then….

While many/most accidents are arguably preventable ( at least in hindsight), the reality in climbing , especially in the alpine context, is that on occasion participants have to put themselves in positions of potential risk. Most of the time it works out fine, but sometimes…. So, yes, preventable if you chose not to participate in the sport, but otherwise, sometimes the odds catch-up and ‘shit happens’ even to those who are experienced and well-prepared.

". . . almost all accidents are easily preventable."

Read this several times. It's great. 

What better rescue to go on than for folks who are fine

Alan Rubinwrote:

Well, yeah, if you stay at home in bed all day, though even then….

While many/most accidents are arguably preventable ( at least in hindsight), the reality in climbing , especially in the alpine context, is that on occasion participants have to put themselves in positions of potential risk. Most of the time it works out fine, but sometimes…. So, yes, preventable if you chose not to participate in the sport, but otherwise, sometimes the odds catch-up and ‘shit happens’ even to those who are experienced and well-prepared.

Some days the right choice is to stay in bed. Risk assessment starts before getting out of bed.

WF WF51wrote:

". . . almost all accidents are easily preventable."

Read this several times. It's great. 

Did you know there's not really such a thing as a car "accident"?? At almost every instance, someone f*cked up,  where they could of, and should of, not screwed the pooch:)

Tradibanwrote:

Some days the right choice is to stay in bed. Risk assessment starts before getting out of bed.

Did you invite everyone to the party? 

5Seven Kevinwrote:

Did you know there's not really such a thing as a car "accident"?? At almost every instance, someone f*cked up,  where they could of, and should of, not screwed the pooch:)

And he wasn't trolling. 

5Seven Kevinwrote:

Did you know there's not really such a thing as a car "accident"?? At almost every instance, someone f*cked up,  where they could of, and should of, not screwed the pooch:)

With cars, drivers are often at the mercy of other drivers and therefore much less predictable actions occur than in climbing.

Harry Kwrote:

It’s not only gumbies or rich people who need rescue.  Stuff happens, weather happens. So ridiculous to pretend like any of you know the exact circumstances. 

And pure ego to imagine it’s never possible for YOU to need a rescue. 

You’re misunderstanding the other points.  There are legitimate rescues and there are questionable “rescues”.   This thread deals with a very questionable “rescue” of an uninjured party making poor judgments.  Sure mental capacity can be as debilitating as physical capacity, but sometimes there’s just no excuse.

Your points don’t really come into play here (so far in THIS discussion).  It’s not pure ego to suggest that essentially everyone in this thread would NOT call for rescue in the situation at hand in this thread.  In fact I’ll admit that I would definitely wuss out and call for a rescue myself,  if both my femurs were broken…

It’s much worse ego to carelessly only think about what your own selfish immediate priorities and desires are and impulsively act on them knowing others will backstop you and pick up your slack.  Yes details matter, thus why some are asking.  For example, If this team was under 17 yrs old or over 70, I’d cut em slack for different reasons.  

Tradibanwrote:

With cars, drivers are often at the mercy of other drivers and therefore much less predictable actions occur than in climbing.

Idk man, these multipitch in red rocks are starting to get freeway crowded levels. Nothing like people knocking rocks down epinephrine when they miss the giant, gaping chasm chimney....

Mark Pilatewrote:

You’re misunderstanding the other points.  There are legitimate rescues and there are questionable “rescues”.   This thread deals with a very questionable “rescue” of an uninjured party making poor judgments.  Sure mental capacity can be as debilitating as physical capacity, but sometimes there’s just no excuse.

I am glad there is a system in place to avoid placing financial burden on any accident victims, lest we all be subject to the MP grand tribunal to deliberate over what qualifies as a “worthy” rescue.

There is a fine line in perception of “poor judgement” versus a legitimate accident in the eyes of armchair SAR analysts. We all are victims to our own hubris from time to time, and I hope that when I inevitably fuck up, it doesn’t have to come with a $100k price tag.

5Seven Kevinwrote:

Idk man, these multipitch in red rocks are starting to get freeway crowded levels. Nothing like people knocking rocks down epinephrine when they miss the giant, gaping chasm chimney....

Climbers above is a risk easily avoided, climb a different route or get up earlier.

P Bwrote:

I am glad there is a system in place to avoid placing financial burden on any accident victims, lest we all be subject to the MP grand tribunal to deliberate over what qualifies as a “worthy” rescue.

There is a fine line in perception of “poor judgement” versus a legitimate accident in the eyes of armchair SAR analysts. We all are victims to our own hubris from time to time, and I hope that when I inevitably fuck up, it doesn’t have to come with a $100k price tag.

Ok, I’ll continue to play the role of condescending “curmudgeon” here.   For what it’s worth, my personal perspective is not armchair.  I have 20 yrs of SAR experience up till last year when I quit.  I have personal experience on the injured side from 3 backcountry accidents totaling a combined 5 broken bones, 2 dislocations and 25 Km of self extraction.  I’ve seen it all from all sides….official rescues, unofficial rescues, self rescues.  I’ve “rescued” a similar team under similar conditions from the very same route as this thread several years ago.  

My tolerance for idiots has diminished sharply over the years.  Commensurate with the increased numbers, and lower skill levels of the population at large.  Familiarity (or over exposure) breeds contempt.  

Too many rescues are totally unnecessary.  It’s a gray area of what constitutes legit from non-legit, but a rough start would say serious debilitating injury/broken bones is legit.  Shit happens.   Having the sniffles from being uncomfortably cold and off-route in the dark is not.   Risk of permanent injury or death is legit.  Temporarily scared or uncomfortable is not  

I’m not looking to financially ruin or harshly punish people for their mistakes and stupidity, but those on the non-legit side of the scale should have consequences.  Like all their gear is “donated” to the SAR organization and they are banned from the Park for 5 years.  Similar to what happens to poachers when caught.   Cuz essentially they were trying to poach an experience they weren’t supposed to by shortcutting the skills, experience, knowledge, and equipment they should’ve had by all reasonable stds.

I’m actually surprised some support zero consequences for ALL cases.