When wealthy adventurers take huge risks, who should pay for rescue attempts?

When wealthy adventurers take huge risks, who should pay for rescue attempts?

Several interesting inserts.  

Nine years later, after Fossett’s plane vanished over Nevada during what should have been a short flight, the state National Guard launched a months-long search that turned up the wreckage of several other decades-old crashes without finding the millionaire.  The state said the mission had cost taxpayers $685,998, with $200,000 covered by a private contribution. But when the administration of Gov. Jim Gibbons announced that it would seek reimbursement for the rest, Fossett’s widow balked, noting she had spent $1 million on her own private search.

Risky adventurism is hardly unique to wealthy people.  The pandemic drove a surge in visits to places like national parks, adding to the popularity of climbing, hiking and other outdoor activities. Meanwhile, the spread of cellphones and service has left many feeling that if things go wrong, help is a call away.  Some places have laws commonly referred to as “stupid motorist laws,” in which drivers are forced to foot the emergency response bill when they ignore barricades on submerged roads. Arizona has such a law, and Volusia County in Florida, home to Daytona, enacted similar legislation this week. The idea of a similar “stupid hiker law” is a regularly debated item in Arizona as well, with so many unprepared people needing to be rescued in stifling triple-digit heat.

It is a topic I have covered for several decades, both in Canada and the US.  My first take has always been if the average local and/or state tax payer does not care, then of course I don't.  The quandary has always been, do they know that money that could go to "essential services" is spent on middle class and wealthy tourists who make plenty of poor choices and decisions, with zero effort of reimbursement.

If the state is going to cover the medical expenses of the human potato that ate McDonalds and smoked cigarettes their whole life. Then these rescues of relatively young people are just a drop in the bucket for the tax payer.

#makenaturalselectioncheapagain

Dow Williamswrote:

When wealthy adventurers take huge risks, who should pay for rescue attempts?

Nine years later, after Fossett’s plane vanished over Nevada during what should have been a short flight, 

Bit of a mischaracterization here, no?  There’s hundreds of thousands of recreational pilots in the US alone, and most aren’t “wealthy adventurers,” and few would consider a trained pilot flying their plane as taking a “huge risk.”

Echoing a similar sentiment above, we subsidize people eating themselves to death in this country (70% overweight, 30% population is obese), so why not use tax money to rescue adventurers in need? Making "poor choices and decisions" and relying on bailouts is the American way. 

The Colorado National Guard assists with more rescues than other state but Alaska, and our helicopters bill out to the respective local and federal agencies at roughly $5000/hr. There has been talk in the past of recouping costs from those showing gross negligence, but it's also worth noting 1) the overall benefit of active lifestyles and 2) the very real economic calculus of our outdoor recreation economy. 

Eric Shulerwrote:

If the state is going to cover the medical expenses of the human potato that ate McDonalds and smoked cigarettes their whole life. Then these rescues of relatively young people are just a drop in the bucket for the tax payer.

I wish.  Libertarian my whole life, which means for those who really don't know what an authentic one is, I rate importance of personal responsibility on a much higher plane than your standard conservative or liberal.  In my opinion, obesity should not be accepted as a lifestyle choice if one wants society to bail him/her out via medical assistance caused by same.  But I am afraid that debate can't even be whispered in todays culture on any political stage.  On the flip side, those who don't have individual choice, children for example, I believe should be afforded as good of health care, diet and education as a society can afford.  But we know that does not happen, even in a resource rich state like NV with a small population, so I digress.

I do climb, a lot, and can attest that it is an inherent selfish endeavor contributing little to society as a whole, similar to Fossett's.  Don't understand why tight essential service budgets, in the state of NV for example, are raided for privileged men like Fossett and Rush.  

School yard type debating, "yeah but what about McDonald customers and smoking cigarettes", has about as much influence as when you told your parents, "yeah, but Johhny's parents let him shoot up heroine".  Little to no influence regarding this topic, at least among folks who consider themselves climbers or hikers. However I do find this kind of argument seems to be more pervasive today for some reason though.  If the Industrial Military Complex charges $52K for a trashcan, I guess many of you just don't care anymore.  I get it.  Not sure how it will play out in the end for you, but I get it.

I don't understand why the world "wealthy" is in the subject line, nor in the question. 

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

I don't understand why the world "wealthy" is in the subject line, nor in the question. 

Agree.  I know one of the authors.  I believe if they did not include that word, it would not have gotten published.  As stated in one of the other posts.  The American way now days I guess.

MauryBwrote:

The Colorado National Guard assists with more rescues than other state but Alaska, and our helicopters bill out to the respective local and federal agencies at roughly $5000/hr. 

the last part of your statement is misleading. local agencies in CO are not billed for guard activities (if requested through the proper channels). i think you're meaning to say operating costs.

All I have to say is that I don’t understand how we can find the resources for the sort of operation the titan rescue attempt required, but can’t help migrants stranded on a BOAT.

Also, anyone who thinks obesity is a personal choice should listen to this…

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4lk8RP7tYm0T6S0H7FNsJM?si=RxYOz2WWR5WYzOC2Z0Miuw

F Wheelerwrote:

Bit of a mischaracterization here, no?  There’s hundreds of thousands of recreational pilots in the US alone, and most aren’t “wealthy adventurers,” and few would consider a trained pilot flying their plane as taking a “huge risk.”

How would one go about affording a personal plane and not be considered “wealthy”. I can’t even afford to own a car if I want to do anything besides work and eat ramen.

Wade Bankswrote:

How would one go about affording a personal plane and not be considered “wealthy”. I can’t even afford to own a car if I want to do anything besides work and eat ramen.

Somehow people can make it work for built out Sprinters, so why not a used Cessna? 

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=CESSNA&model=172M+SKYHAWK&listing_id=2414201&s-type=aircraft

Dow Williamswrote:

 The state said the mission had cost taxpayers $685,998, with $200,000 covered by a private contribution. 

I’ve always wondered how much of these figures are sunk costs (I.e. the personnel were already on-duty collecting a salary that is being paid either way) vs. actual costs like OT, fuel, etc. 

While wealth isn’t a factor ( at least ‘officially’), New Hampshire will seek to recover rescue costs from individuals and groups for rescues, if they demonstrated particularly reckless behavior in how they got themselves in trouble.I believe that some other jurisdictions do the same:

Climb Onwrote:

I’ve always wondered how much of these figures are sunk costs (I.e. the personnel were already on-duty collecting a salary that is being paid either way) vs. actual costs like OT, fuel, etc. 

Me too. It’s expensive to have the National Guard out on a rescue, but it’s also expensive to have the National Guard, in general.

I have heard from Guard / military folks that rescues can sometimes offset training they were going to do anyway. Depends on the volume of calls, I’m sure. 

Marc801 Cwrote:

Somehow people can make it work for built out Sprinters, so why not a used Cessna? 

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=CESSNA&model=172M+SKYHAWK&listing_id=2414201&s-type=aircraft

Tell me you don't know much about aviation without saying so . . . .

Wade Bankswrote:

How would one go about affording a personal plane and not be considered “wealthy”. I can’t even afford to own a car if I want to do anything besides work and eat ramen.

Very few recreational pilots own their own plane.    

Isaac Gromackiwrote:

All I have to say is that I don’t understand how we can find the resources for the sort of operation the titan rescue attempt required, but can’t help migrants stranded on a BOAT.

Can you understand that resources and protocols vary by geographic region and country? The US and Canadian Coast Guards cannot be deployed in the Mediterranean Sea in an hour. Malta, Turkey, Greece, the Baltic states, France, and Spain have their own resources that can be deployed. After decades of incidents like this happening the Mediterranean states are not eager to help support the human trafficking cartels who operate most of these boats. That sentiment goes all the way down to the people doing the rescues, where it might even be the most prevalent. There's plenty of countries along the northern coast of Africa that could act as well, they seem to bear a relatively low share of the blame for not helping though. Is any of that the fault of the migrants? No. Does my heart break for the migrants? Absolutely.

Let's leave it at this: the Canadian and American Coast Guards are good at what they do. Other regions have their own challenges, complications, and strengths. There's very little correlation between the two. 

So, yet again, please understand that most SAR groups in the US are all volunteer, and do not charge for their services. They are also first responders and are under the jurisdiction of that system. Here, it's the county sheriff, although they can be requested by other agencies for an assist.

Yes, they could charge....but don't.

It would also be good to reflect on what the mission actually is, for the National Guard. They are there, in service to the state they are associated with, to protect life and property, and other duties as assigned. That can certainly include rescues. They are also available for deployment elsewhere. Sometimes as troops, sometimes as wildland firefighters, or just to stand around looking official and getting people's initial info at covid test sites, early on. Remember that? Here, when covid first was a thing, and a scary thing at that? The governor issued his first proclamations on it from the guard base, with the base commander literally at his back. And, made it clear he (the governor) was in charge and had troops available. 

Rescuing people, for real, is far more gratifying than flying mock missions, or running SAR scenarios.

Besides, I'm not sure climbers should be barking any too loudly about other people being stupid persuing dumb things, and getting themselves (or others) in big trouble, eh?

One can always donate to SAR, and one is already "paying" for all the government stuff, anyway.

Best, Helen 

Old lady Hwrote:

So, yet again, please understand that most SAR groups in the US are all volunteer, and do not charge for their services. They are also first responders and are under the jurisdiction of that system. Here, it's the county sheriff, although they can be requested by other agencies for an assist.

Yes, they could charge....but don't.

It would also be good to reflect on what the mission actually is, for the National Guard. They are there, in service to the state they are associated with, to protect life and property, and other duties as assigned. That can certainly include rescues. They are also available for deployment elsewhere. Sometimes as troops, sometimes as wildland firefighters, or just to stand around looking official and getting people's initial info at covid test sites, early on. Remember that? Here, when covid first was a thing, and a scary thing at that? The governor issued his first proclamations on it from the guard base, with the base commander literally at his back. And, made it clear he (the governor) was in charge and had troops available. 

Rescuing people, for real, is far more gratifying than flying mock missions, or running SAR scenarios.

Besides, I'm not sure climbers should be barking any too loudly about other people being stupid persuing dumb things, and getting themselves (or others) in big trouble, eh?

One can always donate to SAR, and one is already "paying" for all the government stuff, anyway.

Best, Helen 

To add onto this, there's a lot of expertise gained from working through complex rescue scenarios (like the Titan Submersible). Those lessons are beneficial in the public and private sector, they contribute to an important scientific and engineering knowledge base as well.