Does Petzl officially endorse using a GriGri to belay a second?

I realize it's possible but does Petzl officially endorse it in the manual? A friend swears they do and learned that technique at a AMGA course but I find that technique sketchy because if the cam is orientated inwards and then the follower falls the cam could be compressed against the rock and the Gri unlocked.

Just like any belay device, if you set it up wrong it is going to be unsafe.

To answer this question, one would need to view the manual or Petzl instructions. One could go to the Petzl website, to see if this information is available:

petzl.com/en/Sport/Belaying…;Familly=Belay-devices--descenders&l=US#.VB4uc3J0yEk

Tradoholic wrote:I realize it's possible but does Petzl officially endorse it in the manual? A friend swears they do and learned that technique at a AMGA course but I find that technique sketchy because if the cam is orientated inwards and then the follower falls the cam could be compressed against the rock and the Gri unlocked.

I know of several AMGA guides that love to bring their clients up on Grigris. I'm not a certified guide, but personally prefer belaying seconds on the Reverso for its lack of weight and active camming device. Like Joe said, when properly used/oriented, the Grigri works fine though.

Another consideration is how far above you the device is when bringing seconds up. If it's in close proximity, and the active camming bar on a Grigri fails, you can easily get the brake line above the device for effective braking. Sometimes I find a ledge where the best anchor is found a couple or several feet above my head, which is another reason I like my Reverso.

When oriented properly, there is virtually no chance of the "assisted braking" mechanism to fail and I don't have to worry about getting the brake line above the device to get a greater mechanical advantage on the brake. That being said, an experienced climber with be able to hold the brake line most of the time on a Grigri even if the the camming bar fails when belaying a second. (The other great feature of a Reverso is that you can easily bring up a second and third at the same time safely.)

This is the recommended way to belay a second using a gri gri by using a redirect from the Petzl website. petzl.com/en/Sport/Belaying…;Familly=Belay-devices--descenders#.VB4645RkTmc

Tradoholic wrote:..I find that technique sketchy because if the cam is orientated inwards and then the follower falls the cam could be compressed against the rock and the Gri unlocked.

Then it acts just like a bell ATC. The locking function on the GriGri is an addition to normal belay procedure, not a substitute for it.

Another plus for the grigi is you can easily drop a loop to the second and help them over a crux if they aren't pulling it.

Paging Squamish, paging Squamish
;)

Yes, Petzl does. They recommend doing so as a sling-shot belay, exactly the same as if you were belaying a person on a top-rope climb from the ground, but instead of the belayer being the full climb length below the anchor, the belayer is just a couple of feet below the anchor.

They do not seem to recommend using it in "guide" mode, that is, attaching the gri-gri directly to the anchor.

i belay the second all the time with a grigri in guide mode. it works great. Doing a redirect sounds like a pain in the ass.

in response to whether petzl "officially" recommends it-- probably not. They probably also don't recommend using a grigri to
a) rope-solo
b) as a back-up while jumaring
c) a bunch of other stuff that is reasonable.

MJMobes wrote:Paging Squamish, paging Squamish ;)

Well little troll, if you had bothered to learn the grigri basics and read petzls instructions you would have been able to answer the OPs question properly rather than making snarky little comments that rather than give helpful info

But unfortunately despite being a grigri "expert" who advocates hands free grigri belaying you dont have the knowledge to give an answer =P

From petzl

^ biPhone

I think the link above to Petzl and bearbreeder's picture answered your original question.

I'll add:
The Freino carabinier works well with the Grigri for belaying the second. It has a gated spur on the side to route the rope in the correct position. Easy to lower with good control if you have a larger second.

As others have said, make sure you are shown how to properly use the gear by someone knowledgeable. Make sure you have practiced and know what you are doing in a safe environment before you put someone else's life at risk.

I do a lot in my garage, where I have set up hangers and such, to practice my techniques so that I know what I'm doing before risking uncertainty on the real thing.

Climb safe and have fun doing it!

Dallas R wrote: Then it acts just like a bell ATC. The locking function on the GriGri is an addition to normal belay procedure, not a substitute for it.

What Dallas said, you still need to have a breaking hand on the rope at all times or tie it off if you want to go hands free. If you go hands free with a Gri-Gri or any plaquette style device in Guide mode without tying it off, they (AMGA examiners) would most certainly fail you.

I work as a guide, and I typically won't use the Grigri to belay up seconds because I prefer to have a fully hands-free belay *AND* I need to be able to bring up two "seconds," sometimes simultaneously.

That being said, you CAN belay from above with it, just hang on like the picture says in the literature.

I find it useful as a safety line belay when setting up a single line rappel for clients, but other than that I prefer to use my BD ATG Guide for all of my belay needs.

Unless I'm lead belaying, or being lead belayed by clients.... then the Grigri is useful.

Screw it. Just get ALL THE GEARS!!! :-)

bearbreeder wrote: Well little troll, if you had bothered to learn the grigri basics and read petzls instructions you would have been able to answer the OPs question properly rather than making snarky little comments that rather than give helpful info But unfortunately despite being a grigri "expert" who advocates hands free grigri belaying you dont have the knowledge to give an answer =P From petzl ;)

I couldn't find that on Petz's website, is it current? Looks like they have endorsed it albeit with caveats. If those images are current I lost the bet but regardless I don't know why anyone would use a GriGri this way with the caveats and limitations.

Buy a Smart Alpine or the Eldruid Mega Jule, half the price, half the weight, and twice the function of a Gri. The Gri is great for sport belay (even that is debatable) but that's pretty much it.

Tradoholic wrote:I couldn't find that on Petz's website, is it current?

You may want to read this thread - the the second reply links the Petzl page with that info (and the images bearbreeder posted).

Don't ever question bearbreeder in squamish, he checks petzls website hourly for updates. squamish.

MJMobes wrote:Don't ever question bearbreeder in squamish, he checks petzls website hourly for updates. squamish.

zzzzzzzzzz

;)

Sorry old thread, but I think Hard-is-Easy's recent Grigri videos shed new light on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We-nxljgnw4&t=524s - the part about the rope entrance angle (8:44 - 9:10).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8pEe5X1-Lc&t=1191s - the part about lead vs TR falls (19:51 - 20:28)

For these 2 reasons, in the scenario of this thread the cam is less likely to engage on its own.

As far as I can tell, the problem mainly affects ropes near the bottom of the device's range.  If you've been doing this with fatter ropes and gotten used to it catching on its own, watch out for surprises with skinny ropes.

(in theory the idea "keep your hand on the brake strand at all times" covers it, but IMO doesn't convey how special this case is)

Serge Swrote:

Sorry old thread, but I think Hard-is-Easy's recent Grigri videos shed new light on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We-nxljgnw4&t=524s - the part about the rope entrance angle (8:44 - 9:10).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8pEe5X1-Lc&t=1191s - the part about lead vs TR falls (19:51 - 20:28)

For these 2 reasons, in the scenario of this thread the cam is less likely to engage on its own.

As far as I can tell, the problem mainly affects ropes near the bottom of the device's range.  If you've been doing this with fatter ropes and gotten used to it catching on its own, watch out for surprises with skinny ropes.

(in theory the idea "keep your hand on the brake strand at all times" covers it, but IMO doesn't convey how special this case is)

Holy necrothread, Batman! That being said, I prefer an ATC if belaying a leader and GriGri if belaying a follower.

For all you using a grigri in 'guide' mode (i.e. off the anchor), how do you prevent the rope from feeding out under it's own weight? As much as I love the grigri for belaying a leader, when belaying a follower I need to be able to take my hands off to organize stuff to get ready for the next pitch. The feeding out rope that the grigri does when belayed directly from the anchor prevents that.