The BEST multi-pitch rappel anchor?

Dwayne La Rocawrote:

Okay, now I think the configuration is optimized… option E!

Seven links of chain seems best:)

Sexy ramshorns are sexy.

The in-line arrangement of bolts/anchors is ideal. I would only use rap rings that keep the rope captive within each connection point for anchors that are not linked.

In the unlikely event the top anchor/bolt were to fail then with the rope running through rap rings (one above the other), the rope cannot unclip itself as the load (slack rope) drops onto the lower anchor/bolt. No matter how unlikely, Karabiners introduce the risk of unclipping.

Kevin Mokracekwrote:

Non stainless chain in an arid climate or desert environment will last forever.   I’ve never seen plated or galvanized chain corroded so bad it was a danger outside of severe wet or beach environments.  

Absolutely, yet the masses still bitch about it. Last time I used plated steel on an almost desert like cliff I had a local guide wanting to replace everything within the first couple of years because some zinc had chipped off and a spot of rust was showing.

M Mwrote:

Absolutely, yet the masses still bitch about it. Last time I used plated steel on an almost desert like cliff I had a local guide wanting to replace everything within the first couple of years because some zinc had chipped off and a spot of rust was showing.

Maybe not important on some rock, but zinc will leech with rain and kill lichen below it.
It's easy to spot on granite the clean white streaks below zinc anchors.... handy for finding the anchors though.

Mr Rogerswrote:

Maybe not important on some rock, but zinc will leech with rain and kill lichen below it.
It's easy to spot on granite the clean white streaks below zinc anchors.... handy for finding the anchors though.

Yeah, not ideal if you're trying to keep things on the dl and non-climbers from closing your crags.

The streaks from zinc plated hardware also wrecks aesthetic havoc on dark/black limestone faces and streaks. Lichen kill. Some great routes have had to be affected for us to learn of this negative outcome. Again, it doesn’t matter in all locations, but important to recognize where it does.

Since most everyone likes (A) how has the Fixe SS Belay Station not come up once?  Easy to get, somewhat reasonably priced, lots of places to clip stuff.  I've place 20-30+ of these, some on heavily trafficked routes, and have not seen any significant wear on the rings.  Liked them better when it was actual chain, but the new ones are fine.  It can't be that much cheaper to buy 2 stainless hangers, 2 stainless quicklinks, stainless chain and a stainless rap ring.

Darin Berdinkawrote:

Since most everyone likes (A) how has the Fixe SS Belay Station not come up once?  Easy to get, somewhat reasonably priced, lots of places to clip stuff.  I've place 20-30+ of these, some on heavily trafficked routes, and have not seen any significant wear on the rings.  Liked them better when it was actual chain, but the new ones are fine.  It can't be that much cheaper to buy 2 stainless hangers, 2 stainless quicklinks, stainless chain and a stainless rap ring.

These are the bomb Darin! I've got access to a bunch of free SS metolius ring Anchors (switching them to glue ins and chains/mussys on sandstone sport routes.) I add a high bolt with a chain and quicklink attached to the bottom ring and you've got the equivalent of the above setup with the added advantage of being modular so any component can be easily replaced.  

I'll sometimes put a third bolt, especially on hanging hanging stances, as a back pack hanger/to spread out the quad for people who are into that sorta thing. It also allows for people who don't like the single ring setup to add hardware so they can have two points, because that always seems to be a thing for some people, and it keeps them from doing goofy things like trying to thread the chain.  

I prefer a closed system setup like this for multipitch, the rams horn+carabiner seems overly complicated and expensive.  

Alec Baker wrote:

Any reason why the carabiner is facing with the gate towards the wall? Seems like it would be easier to clip facing out, and there's no need to oppose carabiner gates with the pig-horn/rams-tail.

Good question. I decided the gate facing into the rock eliminated the possibility of the rope unclipping from the back-up lower biner while fully supported off the higher rams horn upon rappel.

With the gate out the rope held the possibility to compress the wire-gate and unclip from the backup.

To my surprise, with the steel biner being connected to the screw-link- there was ample room for it to be very easily clipped from below to complete a redpoint and call for a take.

my cost into the set-up as show was $26

Darin Berdinkawrote:

Since most everyone likes (A) how has the Fixe SS Belay Station not come up once?  Easy to get, somewhat reasonably priced, lots of places to clip stuff.  I've place 20-30+ of these, some on heavily trafficked routes, and have not seen any significant wear on the rings.  Liked them better when it was actual chain, but the new ones are fine.  It can't be that much cheaper to buy 2 stainless hangers, 2 stainless quicklinks, stainless chain and a stainless rap ring.

I sell the Austrian Alpine equivalent but the drawback for single pitch sport use concerns the lower ring and that it cannot be replaced once worn through. With more than one connection component and a weld not ground smooth, the ring will not rotate as freely compared to a in-line 'French' arrangement

Francis Hadenwrote:

I sell the Austrian Alpine equivalent but the drawback for single pitch sport use concerns the lower ring and that it cannot be replaced once worn through. With more than one connection component and a weld not ground smooth, the ring will not rotate as freely compared to a in-line 'French' arrangement

It could be easily ground off and replaced with a 3/8” ss screwlink when the time comes- that lower ring is still not redundant in my perception though.

screwlink would not rotate and would then wear quicker, but a ring could be added to the bottom of the screwlink.

Dwayne La Rocawrote:

It could be easily ground off and replaced with a 3/8” ss screwlink when the time comes- that lower ring is still not redundant in my perception though.

screwlink would not rotate and would then wear quicker, but a ring could be added to the bottom of the screwlink.

For sure, though the screw link orientation would be poorly orientated without adding a ring.

So you basically end up with a French anchor where the chain is unnecessary unless both both anchors cannot be sited on the same face and one needs to be located around a corner or above a sharp edge where the rope would be cut and connected to the better positioned bolt through which the rope is connected (via ring or something else).

Chain sets with fixed rings are great for multi pitch routes where climbers are setting up belays and you want the rope captive for abseils and the wear is minimal on a single ring.

There has been a good bit of drift here but the title is "best multipitch anchor"

rgoldwrote:

A is the best.  B is good, but because of the orientation of the rings, the pull might be harder, especially if the party rigs so that the outer strand is pulled and pinches the inner strand against the rock. [[B might look more redundant than A but it isn't really, and it doesn't distribute the load either.]]  C and D have rings at the same level, and that will twist the rope when it is pulled. C gives the party places to clip tethers that are separate from the threads for the rappel rope, D forces the rings to be used for everything which is less desirable.

[[ brackets added above for emphasis]]

B has a steel ring attached to one anchor/bolt, and a steel link attached to a seperate anchor/bolt via a chain- both the ring and the link are to be threaded for a 2x captive rope when on lower/rappel. How is this not more redundant than A with a single ring to be threaded? And how does it “fail to distribute the load”?

I’m not actually worried about either of these set-ups failing to hold the forces they need to, but curious as to why you made this point?

ERRAND WOLFEwrote:

I'm a big fan of the "B" setup, but I also like "C" for being super clean and low profile. 

In my mind the B setup spreads the bolts into different fracture cones (?) And gives additional realestate for clipping in. Just my 2 cents.  

Here's my last "B" setup. (Ignore the shi* paint)

This is a great captive rope set up IMO.

Only down sides:

1) you have to un-tie/thread

2) It can blow in the wind and scratch up soft rock

3) it’s not redundant while threading and secured to the anchor without cross-bridging the two bolts with a draw or having two seperate slings to clip in.

It’s damn hard to get painted components installed without some cosmetic scratches and dings!

timothy fisherwrote:

There has been a good bit of drift here but the title is "best multipitch anchor"

It isn't, it's about rap anchors.

Jim Tittwrote:

It isn't, it's about rap anchors.

Correct and it is not about single pitch lower offs which is a different much discussed topic.

Considering doing this as a Multipitch anchor - does anyone have any thoughts on this? Would it be bad to just have one free link below the lower quicklink rather than two? My thought being if, god forbid, somehow the one free link got worn out you could pretty easily sub it out with a quicklink while still having the bottom of the link that the quicklink is through to actually rap off. Plenty of clip in points for personal anchors or otherwise. Single point rap means no twisting when pulling rope or anything.

Tal Mwrote:

Considering doing this as a Multipitch anchor - does anyone have any thoughts on this? Would it be bad to just have one free link below the lower quicklink rather than two? My thought being if, god forbid, somehow the one free link got worn out you could pretty easily sub it out with a quicklink while still having the bottom of the link that the quicklink is through to actually rap off. Plenty of clip in points for personal anchors or otherwise. Single point rap means no twisting when pulling rope or anything.

It’s a cheaper and less desirable version of A.

Same benefits and limitations with slightly more challenging maintenance down the road.

Dwayne La Rocawrote:

It’s a cheaper and less desirable version of A.

Same benefits and limitations with slightly more challenging maintenance down the road.

Sounds pretty much what I was aiming for - this would be on a route with low traffic and I have an exorbitant amount of chain and a diminishing amount of quicklinks. At 5/16 316 chain and just being used to rap, I can’t imagine this set up needs to see maintenance in any reasonable future - and if it does, you can just move the last link around and throw a quicklink in instead to have a refreshed master point