To help, or not to help, that is the question.

Hey climbers! Just had a rather disheartening experience at Suicide this Sunday afternoon. My friend and I were TRing a route at Buttress of cracks.  When pulling the rope, we got it stuck halfway up the wall (sigh). Not the worst that could happen, but certainly very annoying! (Un)fortunately there were two guys practicing aid on TR on a route next door. Before our rope misfortune, we even took cool pics of them and chatted about beta etc. So we asked them to swing to our rope to unstuck it (in exchange for beverages of course :P ) and they seemed responsive to the idea, laughing with us and saying sure let’s see how it looked when they got to the anchor. Cool beans.

We wait. Keep whipping (in case it miraculously gets unstuck), they finished, pulled their rope, passed us and said, “enjoy your beverages!”. 

For context, we were not in danger, and we had a 2nd rope in a car that one of us went to retrieve (+1.5h) while waiting for these two guys to do the “swing” (+10 min).

Altogether, it felt pretty disheartening to be ignored in a situation where they could have made a quick difference. I've always believed that the climbing community is built on camaraderie and support, and I gave a hand to other climbers in trouble many times. So, I'm curious to hear from you all. Is this a common behavior in the climbing community? Have you ever experienced or witnessed climbers refusing to help their fellow climbers in similar situations? Cool or not cool?

Did they end up pulling your rope, or are you saying they agreed and then just bailed? If the latter, it honestly sounds like a communication issue. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a climber who wouldn't happily unstuck a rope, especially in such close proximity. In the future, maybe a follow-up would be warranted? But I certainly wouldn't jump right to interpreting it as malice. 

KK Cwrote:

 they finished, pulled they rope, passed us and said, “enjoyed your beverages!”. 

I assume you mean "pulled their rope," not yours? Help us out here!

FrankPSwrote:

I assume you mean "pulled their rope," not yours? Help us out here!

yes, they pulled THEIR rope. Ours remained to be stuck while we waited for a friend to bring the 2nd rope from the car. Sorry for typo (edited now).

Guys, I like giving people the benefit of a doubt as well. But we were standing next to these guys for at least 15 minutes trying to get our rope unstuck and talking with them. I explicitly asked if they could help, and the top roping guy said “if only I had a beer in my hand”, and we offered them margaritas we had in the car for their help. Then we were joking about king swing on the nose and the guy said he’d rather do it once he’s done with climbing and reaches his anchor. So honestly I don’t know how different we could have phrased that so that there would be no doubt about communication issues.

It seems like they would have tried to pull your rope, said something about it, etc. Was the "enjoy your beverages" comment a smart-ass way of saying "we didn't want to bother"?

Anyway, they weren't helpful and maybe too high, but nothing to bitch about on MP.  Sounds like you communicated properly to them and they were just selfish.

There are pricks everywhere!

KK Cwrote:

yes, they pulled THEIR rope. Ours remained to be stuck while we waited for a friend to bring the 2nd rope from the car. Sorry for typo (edited now).

In that case, I think I would've just watched them diligently as they were rappelling to ensure that they remembered to do it. Especially if they were distracted/engaged with their own stuff, a quick reminder of your request is pretty harmless. Although it is frustrating, I have a hard time believing these people decided to smite you just for the sake of it. 

James Wolffwrote:

In that case, I think I would've just watched them diligently as they were rappelling to ensure that they remembered to do it. Especially if they were distracted/engaged with their own stuff, a quick reminder of your request is pretty harmless. Although it is frustrating, I have a hard time believing these people decided to smite you just for the sake of it. 

I did not want to be obnoxious.. they said they would take a look so I left it at that. Hard to forget since we kept whipping the stuck rope next to them... it was a pretty obvious reminder we were still stuck :P

Kate Dabrowskawrote:

Guys, I like giving people the benefit of a doubt as well. But we were standing next to these guys for at least 15 minutes trying to get our rope unstuck and talking with them. I explicitly asked if they could help, and the top roping guy said “if only I had a beer in my hand”, and we offered them margaritas we had in the car for their help. Then we were joking about king swing on the nose and the guy said he’d rather do it once he’s done with climbing and reaches his anchor. So honestly I don’t know how different we could have phrased that so that there would be no doubt about communication issues.

Communication can be tricky, and I think it's possible something got lost in translation. Could you have followed up with something more explicit? "Hey, I'd really appreciate if you can unstick our rope on your way down. Thanks again". 

I'm not trying to diminish your experience, as I've had some weird encounters with other climbers, too, but I'm just trying to rationalize how this might have been less insidious than it seems. 

KK Cwrote:

I've always believed that the climbing community is built on camaraderie and support, and I gave a hand to other climbers in trouble many times. So, I'm curious to hear from you all. Is this a common behavior in the climbing community? Have you ever experienced or witnessed climbers refusing to help their fellow climbers in similar situations? Cool or not cool?

How long have you been climbing? I ask, because that’s ^ usually what every new climber believes, then they start to hear stories, or have a few bad experiences at the crag.

The climbing community is just like your everyday community of people. Crooks, thieves, even rapists are out there climbing rocks.

Sometimes, if possible, it’s just best to help yourself rather than ask. 

Kate Dabrowskawrote:

Guys, I like giving people the benefit of a doubt as well. But we were standing next to these guys for at least 15 minutes trying to get our rope unstuck and talking with them. I explicitly asked if they could help, and the top roping guy said “if only I had a beer in my hand”, and we offered them margaritas we had in the car for their help. Then we were joking about king swing on the nose and the guy said he’d rather do it once he’s done with climbing and reaches his anchor. So honestly I don’t know how different we could have phrased that so that there would be no doubt about communication issues.

Climber said... "If only I had a beer!"  

You said... "I have margaritas..." 

next time say... "I have beer!"... problem solved.

Michael Rushwrote:

How long have you been climbing? I ask, because that’s ^ usually what every new climber believes, then they start to hear stories, or have a few bad experiences at the crag.

The climbing community is just like your everyday community of people. Crooks, thieves, even rapists are out there climbing rocks.

Sometimes, if possible, it’s just best to help yourself rather than ask. 

We have a cumulative 30+ years of climbing experience around the world - Sierras, Yosemite, Alps, Dolomites, winter turf climbing in Tatras, Greece, France, Thailand, Canadian Rockies… I don’t know, maybe we’re still newbies for some MP pros lol ;)

and yes we did help ourselves, we were prepared, and we weren’t dying. For me it’s just a learning lesson about the local culture, and a surprise, that’s it

Always worth it to be obnoxious imo, some people are in their own world - I've been impressed at what folks forget even after multiple reminders, especially if they were stressed from aiding. A quick reminder as they lower past where they could get the rope may have solved the situation.

“…learning lesson about the local culture”

You referring to American culture, or Suicide/Tahquitz in particular?

UPDATE: The described climbers reached out to me and apologized for the situation. For me the topic is closed, but I we leave the post as it is, hoping that maybe somebody will think twice in the future.

Cheers 

Dude, anyone can get a rope stuck and having a guy next to you on a rope swing over and fix it for is the least anyone can do. Those guys flat out sucked, and they rubbed it in with their asshole comments as they left.

Never forget this slight.

If you ever see them again, tell them their breath really smells bad from all of the shit eating they do and to please stop consuming feces like a hungry, rabid dog. Tell them I told you to tell them, too. YOU TELL THEM!!!!!!