Average Onsite Grade...Guides Edition

Chris Johnsonwrote:

This is exactly what I was looking for, appreciate the insight! Do you mind if I email you directly to ask about your experience at CMS?

Sure thats fine, I'm happy to chat latok77@gmail.com

The Butt-Shot Whispererwrote:

kinda crazy to think a guide would be onsite

imagine  taking a client on a route they have not done before

guides dont onsite...they know the route and the area by heart then take a client?

getting to know a world class area 

 then do it like the stone masters did skip the thousands of dollars getting certified just be a gypsy guide with no insurance no company just by donation and use a fake name and google phone

and  "guide" the black or the diamond or rifle or shelf or eldo then when u get busted as a gypsy then drive to squamish and guide then EPC in winter to guide and marry up a rich client and become a stay at home dad

On sighting is not that uncommon.  It also depends on the company.  Some guide services require a guide to get "checked out" on a route and mock guide it with a senior guide although I'm not sure how common that is anymore.  It used to be more prevalent with companies like NOLS or outward bound.  In my case my company had a spreadsheet that had all the guides and the type of terrain and difficulty they are qualified to lead.  If I had a client who wanted to climb 5.8 in Eldo I could pick whatever route I felt was appropriate.  Most guides are NOT climbing/ on sighting at their limit when they are working.  You never know how good of a belayer a client is and getting in over your head is scary and puts the client at risk since they are unlikely to know how to self rescue.

Considering that the actual climbing bit is just one aspect of the guide’s day, it’s important that it’s pretty casual climbing. One guiding 5.8 classics should be capable of much more (hence the 5.10+ standard) so there’s plenty of bandwidth to deal with education, client care, and everything else that needs doing. You definitely don’t want to be trying too hard when you’re guiding!

Mr Rogerswrote:

Doesnt canada, ACMG, have really hard standard for guides? Like they need to be able to climb 5.11 trad to get the cert?

Any Canucks to verify my random memory?

“In addition to the training curriculum of the course, there is also a screening element that ensures students are moving confidently and competently at the 5.10+ expectation, and are capable of proficiently managing their personal safety in technical rock terrain. Students who are unsuccessful in the screening element, will be required to re-screen their aptitudes prior to advancing to the Apprentice Rock Guide exam. Students' movement in technical rock terrain is screened on 5.10+ traditionally protected routes and 5.11- bolted sport routes.”

“

Students entering the Rock Guide certificate program must be 19+ years of age and possess the following recreational rock climbing experience:

• 3 years of rock climbing experience on a variety of rock types;
• 20 sport routes flashed (minimum 5.10+) in the past year;
• 20 short routes (1 - 3 pitches) requiring traditional protection placement (minimum 5.10);
• 15 multi-pitch routes (8 -14 pitches) requiring traditional protection placement; and
• 2 long multi-pitch routes (14+ pitches) requiring traditional protection placement.

Additional prerequisites include:

• a current 80 hour wilderness first aid certificate.

Most guides I know pre-run any multi they are likely to guide... in some cases just a few days before they actually go to guide it. Movement, cruxes aside they can find how they want to pitch it out for communication, rope drag, or client belay comfort reasons... What descent option they want to use, where they want to place gear to protect traverses, where to not place gear, or extend gear to reduce drag... is the recommended rack good, or can they pare it down more, does bringing some extra gear open up some good options, what are the options to pass slow parties and will they require a different rack or rope, etc...

Pre-running is for pros. Onsight guiding is sloppy, generally.

Desert Rock Sportswrote:

Pre-running is for pros. Onsight guiding is sloppy, generally.

I mean, yes and no.  I’d argue that the distinction between a ‘pro’ and someone who’s less than pro is their ability to onsight guide well. 

I've got to agree with Max Tepfer here. Absolutely nothing wrong with on-sight guiding and one could even argue it is the sign of a truly competent guide. I mean, come on, if you have to climb a route before you can safely guide someone up it, are you really that good at your trade? 

Add to that the fact that some of the best guiding to be had is international trip guiding where you can't preview routes... well, that means a good guide should be practiced at and comfortable on-sight guiding.

Max Tepferwrote:

I mean, yes and no.  I’d argue that the distinction between a ‘pro’ and someone who’s less than pro is their ability to onsight guide well. 

Yeah George Hurley would do FA's while guiding. 

I have also had clients that specifically wanted to work on route finding and on sighting as a skill. We talked about how to use a guidebook. How to scope the route on the approach and how to route find a technical descent. These are obviously important skills that one needs to develop in order to become a proficient trad climber and I have had many clients whose biggest apprehension about moving towards climbing on their own is how to pick a route, use the guidebook to find it and do the route finding on the own to get up and down. Obviously if that is the focus of the day we spend a bunch of time talking about those specific skills. There is also the skill of what to do if you get off route and how to retreat off a multi pitch safely. A true pro is an experienced enough climber to do all these things within the context of a guided day and do some fun climbing while teaching a variety of complex skills.