Freedom.

Greg Dwrote:

They don't randomly or mysteriously disappear.  They are deleted by someone.  Its not that complicated.  REI owned this site for a while.  A lot of criticism of their policies and what not was showing up on this site.  They sold it back to Nick.  Nick was preping for another sale and some $$$.  He was cleaning house.  It appeared he was making this site look like climbers, rainbows and unicorns is what this site is all about.  Good clean climber fun.  So, any edgy threads or comments got deleted, poof.  Nothing magic here.  If you commented on v@xeens with a non mainstream opinion, such as natural immunity is several times more durable, even though that is a fact now, poof.  He (or somebody) even deleted 10 years of comments on a photo I posted that created some controversy.  

They took it too far.  This site used to be fun, interesting, entertaining.  It is now pretty sterile, pretty boring.  So much so, they use bots to start threads to drive traffic and clicky clicks.  It's not working. I mention this from time to time since I miss the good ol days.  My posts often get deleted.

I can’t imagine why…

Greg D wrote:

Creative!

It's when I mention the above that they get deleted.  

What's that saying?  if you constantly encounter jerks then the only constant is . . .

Chad Millerwrote:

What's that saying?  if you constantly encounter jerks then the only constant is . . .

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Everyone encounters trolls on the internet. That does not mean everyone is a troll.

I can't believe you just made me stand up for what appears to be an anit-vaxxer... Twice in 2 days Chad, that I'm sullying myself on MP on your account.  

Andy Shoemakerwrote:

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Everyone encounters trolls on the internet. That does not mean everyone is a troll.

I can't believe you just made me stand up for what appears to be an anit-vaxxer... Twice in 2 days Chad, that I'm sullying myself on MP on your account.  

Chad said when everyone you encounter is a jerk, troll, etc. Saying everyone encounters trolls/jerks on the internet (from time to time) is vastly different than saying everyone on the internet is a troll/jerk.

That’s not the same thing as what you’re alluding too…so you’re choosing to stand up for whatever or whomever you want to on your own accord, that is noone’s fault but your own. 

Andy Shoemakerwrote:

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Everyone encounters trolls on the internet. That does not mean everyone is a troll.

I can't believe you just made me stand up for what appears to be an anit-vaxxer... Twice in 2 days Chad, that I'm sullying myself on MP on your account.  

There are a lot of trolls on MP though.  I only call out the silly ones.

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

Chad said when everyone you encounter is a jerk, troll, etc. Saying everyone encounters trolls/jerks on the internet (from time to time) is vastly different than saying everyone on the internet is a troll/jerk.

That’s not the same thing as what you’re alluding too…so you’re choosing to stand up for whatever or whomever you want to on your own accord, that is noone’s fault but your own. 

Homie said most of his posts get deleted.  Chad added and you have added replaced that most with an all.  I stand by my accusation of a logical fallacy in play as most threads on MP and elsewhere feature at least some troll activity.

You are correct though, no one forced me to type.  I should have said, compelled me to stand up for.  Thanks for the upgrade.

Just trying to not further alienate someone who might already feel alienated. Perpetuating the likelihood they won’t take science or reason seriously. 

Andy Shoemakerwrote:

Homie said most of his posts get deleted.  Chad added and you have added replaced that most with an all.  I stand by my accusation of a logical fallacy in play as most threads on MP and elsewhere feature at least some troll activity.

You are correct though, no one forced me to type.  I should have said, compelled me to stand up for.  Thanks for the upgrade.

Just trying to not further alienate someone who might already feel alienated. Perpetuating the likelihood they won’t take science or reason seriously. 

This is the internet, this is no place for science or reason!

To be clear, it is rare that my posts get deleted. If I bring up the editing practices on this site, then it is fairly likely.

Carry on. 

Andy Shoemakerwrote:

….You are correct though, no one forced me to type.  I should have said, compelled me to stand up for.  Thanks for the upgrade.

….Perpetuating the likelihood they won’t take science or reason seriously. 

We couldn’t care less about science and reason, but we get all anal and wound up over spelling and grammar!  

Are you sure you didn’t mean “Thanks for the upbraid” ?  

Seems you got more upbraided than upgraded.  

Freedumb.

Mark Pilatewrote:

We couldn’t care less about science and reason, but we get all anal and wound up over spelling and grammar!  

Are you sure you didn’t mean “Thanks for the upbraid” ?  

Seems you got more upbraided than upgraded.  

Is this a hairdo? I need another upgrade please. 

I would encourage the OP (who I would guess is likely reading this thread) to try to accept the guide's apology. I know many of the guides in the Gunks and they are nice, down-to-earth people. I'm pretty sure this misunderstanding resulted from the guide's genuine concerns about safety-- which he very well may have been mistaken about or approached in a counter-productive way. What I'm saying is: I'm sure he didn't mean to be condescending, even if he came off that way. The fact that he reached out to you to try to talk it over is a real sign of goodwill, IMO. 

Also I've climbed City Lights many times and although it is currently rated 5.8 I think it was originally rated 5.7. After the crux (near the beginning at the double triangular pods) it is definitely no harder than 5.6 and the protection through the final section is sparse. It is possible to break up the runout by placing gear in a very questionable flake or by going off-route onto Pas De Deux, but I think the guide's advice about the upper part of the route was not exactly wrong. Seems like the runout climbing was pretty close to your lead limit so the suggestion about the danger might not have been totally off-base. 

Tradibanwrote:

Don’t we have something better to talk about besides two insecure dirtbags bickering at the crag?

Doesn't really seem like it.  Here's a general observation that will serve many of you well:

15% of ANY human demographic in ANY place on the planet is going to be objectively shitbags.  This goes for, but is not limited to:

Climbers

Men

Women (whatever that is lol)

Priests

Cops

Journalists

Activists

White people

Black people

People in general

Firefighters

Computer technicians

Nurses

Engineers

Truck drivers

General civilian motorists

Accountants

Code writers

Marines

Sailors

Soldiers

You name it. 15% of the population in ANY demographic- just complete turds.  It is human nature.

A few exceptions are criminals, who are near the 98% mark, and very highly paid CEOs which are almost always sociopathic narcissists- incidentally most of whom are probably also criminals.

You had a bad day at the crag based on wrong time/wrong place and getting one of the 15%.  Clearly he was a coward and lacked the courage of his convictions.  Armed with that knowledge, you probably did the best thing you could do.  Nothing, and walk away knowing you did nothing wrong and knowing you were the bigger person about it.  Until you whined about it on MP.  

For everyone else, apply the 15% rule and if you have this knowledge going into any situation in which you're pretty much forced to interact with another human being, you'll be better equipped to deal when the inevitable "douchiness" rears its ugly head ~15% of the time.

Jake Joneswrote:

Doesn't really seem like it.  Here's a general observation that will serve many of you well:

15% of ANY human demographic in ANY place on the planet is going to be objectively shitbags.  This goes for, but is not limited to:

Climbers

Men

Women (whatever that is lol)

Priests

Cops

Journalists

Activists

White people

Black people

People in general

Firefighters

Computer technicians

Nurses

Engineers

Truck drivers

General civilian motorists

Accountants

Code writers

Marines

Sailors

Soldiers

You name it. 15% of the population in ANY demographic- just complete turds.  It is human nature.

A few exceptions are criminals, who are near the 98% mark, and very highly paid CEOs which are almost always sociopathic narcissists- incidentally most of whom are probably also criminals.

You had a bad day at the crag based on wrong time/wrong place and getting one of the 15%.  Clearly he was a coward and lacked the courage of his convictions.  Armed with that knowledge, you probably did the best thing you could do.  Nothing, and walk away knowing you did nothing wrong and knowing you were the bigger person about it.  Until you whined about it on MP.  

For everyone else, apply the 15% rule and if you have this knowledge going into any situation in which you're pretty much forced to interact with another human being, you'll be better equipped to deal when the inevitable "douchiness" rears its ugly head ~15% of the time.

Really? I think somewhere inside everyone is 100% good.

Andy Shoemaker wrote:

Shall we design an experiment? Start a thread titled “Bring back Supertopo, MP mods are out of control”. Start another titled “MP is great. We love our mods” Start a timer. See how long they each stay live.

I did.  They are still there. 

Chad Millerwrote:

I did.  They are still there. 

Posts idea here in public.
Post bait threads here in public.
Surprised bait has not been taken.

Hmmm. 

Greg Dwrote:

Posts idea here in public.
Post bait threads here in public.
Surprised bait has not been taken.

Hmmm. 

According to you way more popular public threads have been deleted.  

Hmmmm.  

Chad Millerwrote:

According to you way more popular public threads have been deleted.  

Hmmmm.  

Threads specifically created to see if mods will delete?  

Yeah, okay.  Totally analogous. 

Greg Dwrote:

Threads specifically created to see if mods will delete?  

Yeah, okay.  Totally analogous. 

No but threads where users are commenting on this will get deleted and had tens of thousands of more views. 

I'd say that's comparable.  

Chad Millerwrote:

No but threads where users are commenting on this will get deleted and had tens of thousands of more views. 

I'd say that's comparable.  

I remember why I never respond to you. General senseless, incoherent banter. Thanks for the reminder.

I wonder if you can figure out my response to your next comment.