Freedom.

J T wrote:

When has MP just deleted posts at will? Most posts that get deleted are done so by the user in order for users to not surpass post count. Thus, often continuing any discussions going on that day by posting multiple times. Obviously this can hijack threads sometimes, but I think many are against the post limit….at least I’ve noticed most agree the limit should be raised. 

Hundreds of posts and entire threads have been deleted.  Not the "this post violates guideline #1" type of delete.  Just poof, gone.  Vanished.  It's done on the QT so people like you don't even notice.  

Greg Dwrote:

Hundreds of posts and entire threads have been deleted.  Not the "this post violates guideline #1" type of delete.  Just poof, gone.  Vanished.  It's done on the QT so people like you don't even notice.  

Yet, somehow people like you notice?   

Yeah, not buying that bud. I’m sure system bugs have deleted and/or prevented a few posts here and there, but “hundreds” of posts just vanishing due to some MP police conspiracy is hysterical. Next time screenshot a before and after and I might believe ya. Otherwise, I’m going to go with my conspiracy theory that the users actually deleting their own posts to get past the post limit or there’s a reason (such as political or slander). Sorry, but the MP police don’t give enough shits to delete (or even set up) an auto delete system. 

J T wrote:

When has MP just deleted posts at will? Most posts that get deleted are done so by the user in order for users to not surpass post count.  

I’m with Greg on this one.  He’s not talking about your second sentence where users delete their own posts to get past post limits  

Whole threads, users, and posts just suddenly disappear via MP “moderation” .   Not sure of any other explanation or way to put it.  I can pretty much predict when it will happen.  

Edit to JT below due to post limits:

J T wrote:

I’d still like to hear some examples….

Additionally, if you can “predict when it will happen” then you should be able to describe example of when/how/why it happens and have an explanation. 

Example just this morning.   The thread out of Hawaii about a dude belaying with a Petzl Croll.  It’s gone.  Zapped.  I figured it may go due to naming someone in an accusation.   Perhaps the Dominion case fallout is having online sources be extra cautious with potentially libelous statements. This is just one predictable factor.

Happy to enlighten ;)

Bryanwrote:

When the civil war begins between guides and gumbies, choose your side wisely. 

Do you know how many more gumbies there are? I’m one hundred percent joining the gumbies on this one. They‘ll easily have the numbers to take over all main metropolitan areas, thus creating a stronghold on supplies and main roadways. The guides will cower in fear atop the cliffs, observing the gumbies from afar, wishing they never messed with Scott Doering!!

J T wrote:

I’d still like to hear some examples if there are “hundreds“ of them.
 

Additionally, if you can “predict when it will happen” then you should be able to describe example of when/how/why it happens and have an explanation. So please enlighten me with some previous examples or an example of something that would get deleted. People flagging spam THC gummy threads into oblivion don’t count as “suddenly disappearing” either. I’ll be waiting eagerly   

I too have seen multiple threads disappear entirely in the last few months.  Usually when users become critical of moderators.  So if we keep it up, this thread will become your first example J T.

The last one I saw was a user trying to start a discussion about a regressive law recently passed south of the Mason-Dixon Line that made LGBTQ populations even further second class citizens then they already are in many states long held by red legislators.

It's not easy to provide proof because when mods delete an entire thread it doesn't appear like when a single post is deleted from a still active thread.  The thread disappears entirely with no trace it ever existed.  So you would have to screenshot the subforum or "latest posts" page as soon as the post goes live, but before the mods delete it without any warning.  Like I said, if we keep this discussion up you will see it first hand.

Andy Shoemakerwrote:

I too have seen multiple threads disappear entirely in the last few months.  Usually when users become critical of moderators.  So if we keep it up, this thread will become your first example J T.

The last one I saw was a user trying to start a discussion about a regressive law recently passed south of the Mason-Dixon Line that made LGBTQ populations even further second class citizens then they already are in many states long held by red legislators.

Alright I vaguely remember this thread, I assumed it was deleted by the author or was moved to the political thread. I’m not buying the critical-of-moderators argument though. There are several threads that are devoted solely towards criticizing the site and mods in the feedback section…

It's not easy to provide proof because when mods delete an entire thread it doesn't appear like when a single post is deleted from a still active thread.  The thread disappears entirely with no trace it ever existed.  So you would have to screenshot the subforum or "latest posts" page as soon as the post goes live, but before the mods delete it without any warning.  Like I said, if we keep this discussion up you will see it first hand.

I agree, but Mark seems very positive he can predict these kind if things, so it should be pretty simple to come up with some examples. Past or future.

As far as this discussion goes, I haven’t seen hardly any criticism of moderators and the side discussions are pretty tame compared to a good ol’ Puppy Lovr Thread so I wouldn’t hold your breath that this gets abducted by the moderators!

I mean, I’ve seen moderators delete several posts from myself and another user when we were going back and forth. But it wasn’t random, and was quite obvious to those involved as to why they were gone. The thread continued without any hiccups.

Maybe I am failing to make my point clear (highly likely) but my point is that posts and/or threads don’t just randomly or mysteriously disappear. 

Some people say I single handedly ruined the MP forums, I’d say I had a little help from my friends.

I'd say guides would do well to mind their and their clients own business and unless they're being impacted by the actions of others, stfu with their unsolicited orders or instruction, regardless of the value they personally assign to their own advice.

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

Alright I vaguely remember this thread, I assumed it was deleted by the author...

Once again, an author can only remove their post(s) - they cannot remove an entire thread...

 ...or was moved to the political thread.

...both of which require an admin to accomplish.

A week or two ago there was a user who titled a thread something along the lines of “ban the mp moderators”. The threads disappeared within short order.

Who is arguing that its random or mysterious. Others have argued it’s actually becoming quite predictable.

Shall we design an experiment? Start a thread titled “Bring back Supertopo, MP mods are out of control”. Start another titled “MP is great. We love our mods” Start a timer. See how long they each stay live. 

Thread post limit -

J T-

I did say "usually when users become critical of mods".  I would have been better saying- "at least twice to my knowledge when users become critical of mods..."  We can infer there are other reasons, like the topic is devisive and likely to become a dumpster fire in short order. Or perhaps a somewhat justifiable reason being it involves an open court case and vitriolic discourse online is not prudent when the justice system is hoping to provide the defendant a fair legal process. Even this reasoning is debatable, but I support it. 

The reasoning is by definition speculation since they do in fact "disappear". As you acknowledge- there is no "user violated rule #1" when a thread vanishes.  So if no reason is provided to the user base how else would you describe it so as to let you move beyond your point that these instances aren't "mysterious disappearances"?  

It's all semantics anyway.  In my view, the point that's relevant is that we are on a public site, owned by a private company, and censorship on the internet in 2023 is very difficult.  I see the clear case for sensoring hate speech or ad content.  But scrubbing a topic that's going to be divisive or is critical of our overlords seems problematic on a few levels. 

Marc801 Cwrote:

...both of which require an admin to accomplish.

Are admin and mods the same thing? I always thought when people referred to “mods” it was people behind closed doors moderating the site whereas “admin” were users who have accounts on here and some very, very limited “powers”.

Not Not MP Adminwrote: ….I agree, but Mark seems very positive he can predict these kind if things, so it should be pretty simple to come up with some examples. Past or future…..

 but my point is that posts and/or threads don’t just randomly or mysteriously disappear. 

Forgive me if I’m failing to understand your logic and points here.  You seem somewhat full of “confusement”  (see my edit in my previous post above before I deleted a post to respond here) 

On one hand, you seem to doubt me and my abilities of prediction, yet you yourself remember examples (I’ll list more below from today) and are saying that there is nothing mysterious or random about the deletions.   I may be dense (work with here) but if I say they are predictable, then by definition, I am also saying there is nothing random or mysterious (opposite of predictable) about them.  

So you are agreeing with me, no???

Examples from today/yesterday:  

1. the guy from Ohio advertising his place near crag

2. This morning about belaying with a Croll

And Andy provided good examples.  Also a Burchey thread gone. 

Mark Pilatewrote:

Forgive me if I’m failing to understand your logic and points here.  You seem somewhat full of “confusement”  (see my edit in my previous post above before I deleted a post to respond here) 

lol I’m not confused, just somewhat illiterate. As I, hopefully, cleared up by now. My point still remains that posts and threads are not randomly or mysteriously disappear. I think my initial issue was with the phrase “disappear” rather than “delete”. “Disappear” implies no explanation. 

On one hand, you seem to doubt me and my abilities of prediction, yet you yourself remember examples (I’ll list more below from today) and are saying that there is nothing mysterious or random about the deletions.   I may be dense (work with here) but if I say they are predictable, then by definition, I am also saying there is nothing random or mysterious (opposite of predictable) about them.  

While this is true, you posted in agreement with others suggesting posts were deleted without reason. I was more looking for you to provide various reasons for those disappearances.

So you are agreeing with me, no???

I am in agreement with those coherent enough to realize that posts just don’t disappear without reason. Again, my dumbass didn’t clarify that very well. It seems I agree with much of what you have said though. However, I am in disagreement with Andy’s (whom you are trying to use to support your side) reasoning that posts are deleted due to criticizing admin. So do what you will with that information. 

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

I'd say guides would do well to mind their and their clients own business and unless they're being impacted by the actions of others, stfu with their unsolicited orders or instruction, regardless of the value they personally assign to their own advice.

Sadly, there have been multiple gunks fatalities and serious injuries in recent years to brand new leaders who were not equipped to lead safely. Guess who's usually around to help pick up the pieces? The guides.

Not saying it didn't happen, but I've never seen a guide speak up unless someone appeared to be doing something unknowingly dangerous.

Chad Millerwrote:

Considering I don’t use guides I’ll choose gumbies. Everyone started as a gumby anyways. 

Yeah but the guides know how to tie a Munter mule so there’s that. 

Bryanwrote:

Yeah but the guides know how to tie a Munter mule so there’s that. 

True. But as mentioned before there are way more gumbies. Also, when was the last time you used a munter mule?    

there was 5.5R section above

There is. 

Tradibanwrote:

Don’t we have something better to talk about besides two insecure dirtbags bickering at the crag?

*looks around at the destitute wasteland that is his life*
No.

bridgewrote:

Sadly, there have been multiple gunks fatalities and serious injuries in recent years to brand new leaders who were not equipped to lead safely. Guess who's usually around to help pick up the pieces? The guides.

Not saying it didn't happen, but I've never seen a guide speak up unless someone appeared to be doing something unknowingly dangerous.

You’re assuming they were a guide and not just a punter trying to show off his lady friends.

Also, I’d say it’s mostly other climbers who are there to ‘pick up the pieces’ rather than guides. The number of helpful, experienced climbers tend to outnumber guides at most crags.  

Not Not MP Adminwrote:
Maybe I am failing to make my point clear (highly likely) but my point is that posts and/or threads don’t just randomly or mysteriously disappear. 

They don't randomly or mysteriously disappear.  They are deleted by someone.  Its not that complicated.  REI owned this site for a while.  A lot of criticism of their policies and what not was showing up on this site.  They sold it back to Nick.  Nick was preping for another sale and some $$$.  He was cleaning house.  It appeared he was making this site look like climbers, rainbows and unicorns is what this site is all about.  Good clean climber fun.  So, any edgy threads or comments got deleted, poof.  Nothing magic here.  If you commented on v@xeens with a non mainstream opinion, such as natural immunity is several times more durable, even though that is a fact now, poof.  He (or somebody) even deleted 10 years of comments on a photo I posted that created some controversy.  

They took it too far.  This site used to be fun, interesting, entertaining.  It is now pretty sterile, pretty boring.  So much so, they use bots to start threads to drive traffic and clicky clicks.  It's not working. I mention this from time to time since I miss the good ol days.  My posts often get deleted when I mention this sterilization process.