New C4 rubber vs older C4 rubber

Paul MG wrote:

FWIW I spoke to a VP of Adidas shortly after the takeover during a business meeting to understand their strategy.  When I bought up the topic of the rubber and any patents it was irrelevant to them…..I was told that Adidas use the best rubber supplier in the world and could easily get hold of more superior rubber if they wanted to….it wouldn’t surprise me if they have consolidated their contract with a very well known tire maker……

That's VP speak for "we got nuthin"

Semi-related, but a lot of the resolers are really high on the Davos compounds right now. Anyone try these?

James L wrote:

Semi-related, but a lot of the resolers are really high on the Davos compounds right now. Anyone try these?

A few years ago, I tried one and liked it. It seemed hard and sticky, stickier than the current C4. Thereafter I asked for it many times. Eventually I didn’t like what I was getting, because my resoler was confusing the three or four Davos formulas for his customers to try—I liked the first one and not the others. I even tried the yellow Davos rubber, which was ok on plastic but bad on granite. I’m guessing that most of the Davos formulas are good for limestone. 

Now my favorite rubber is Unparallel RH. It’s stickier than any of the Davos formulas that I tried—and any other rubber out there, including UP RS—and it edges well. I’ve been trying to buy RH from Unparallel, but that’s been unnecessarily difficult. 

George Bracksieck wrote:

A few years ago, I tried one and liked it. It seemed hard and sticky, stickier than the current C4. Thereafter I asked for it many times. Eventually I didn’t like what I was getting, because my resoler was confusing the three or four Davos formulas for his customers to try—I liked the first one and not the others. I even tried the yellow Davos rubber, which was ok on plastic but bad on granite. I’m guessing that most of the Davos formulas are good for limestone. 

Now my favorite rubber is Unparallel RH. It’s stickier than any of the Davos formulas that I tried—and any other rubber out there, including UP RS—and it edges well. I’ve been trying to buy RH from Unparallel, but that’s been unnecessarily difficult. 

They sell it right on the website..... Here is the order form:
https://www.unparallelsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Unparallel_Resole_order_form.pdf

Mr Rogers wrote:

They sell it right on the website..... Here is the order form:
https://www.unparallelsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Unparallel_Resole_order_form.pdf

I have filled out and emailed that form to Jason. He sent me a Credit Card Authorization Form, which asks for too much information. It also asks to acknowledge receipt of and satisfaction with the product, which hasn’t even been processed for shipment. If you buy shoes from their website, you have to provide only cc, expiration date, and CVV—nothing else. Why can’t they sell rubber as easily?

George Bracksieck wrote:

I have filled out and emailed that form to Jason. He sent me a Credit Card Authorization Form, which asks for too much information. It also asks to acknowledge receipt of and satisfaction with the product, which hasn’t even been processed for shipment. If you buy shoes from their website, you have to provide only cc, expiration date, and CVV—nothing else. Why can’t they sell rubber as easily?

It's likely because they 99% of the time are selling to businesses and not individual consumers, so they have an SOP for selling bulk rubber.

It seems like its quite easy to get the rubber if you give the info you need to like anyone else buying bulk rubber from them.
Don't want to give that up? Thats great, personal choice. But don't say it isn't easy.

Mr Rogers wrote:

It's likely because they 99% of the time are selling to businesses and not individual consumers, so they have an SOP for selling bulk rubber.

It seems like its quite easy to get the rubber if you give the info you need to like anyone else buying bulk rubber from them.
Don't want to give that up? Thats great, personal choice. But don't say it isn't easy.

Great news! Jason replied to my request to pay over the phone. He’ll let me know when to call. 

George Bracksieck wrote:

Great news! Jason replied to my request to pay over the phone. He’ll let me know when to call. 

Glad you're getting your rubber!

Mr Rogers wrote:

FYI adidas owns the name to stealth, not the compound. They pay for the use of the formulation and its the same as it ever was.
Supposedly RH is C4.

I wore down C4 on my pinks in 3 weeks, RH lasts me almost two months. Am I crazy or they're not the same compound?

Mr Rogers wrote:

Glad you're getting your rubber!

I have yet to get it. The good news is that I haven’t lost money. 

George Bracksieck wrote:

I have yet to get it. The good news is that I haven’t lost money. 

Update please? When did you get charged and how long have you been waiting? I want to do a resole project and thinking about placing an order for RH, just don't want to wait months for it...

^^^^^^^
I could have said that I haven’t risked any money. On February 2, Jason at UP said that he would email me to say when I could call him and pay with a credit card. This is because I refused to fill out the Credit Card Authorization Form, which asked a lot of impertinent questions regarding bank accounts and banking contacts. I’m not a business asking to establish an ongoing business relationship. I merely want to buy RH for my resoler, who doesn’t have it. I just want to buy rubber from UP as I would climbing shoes.

Jason has yet to email me, and I have yet to pay for rubber. I emailed him one reminder. No response. 

George Bracksieck wrote:

^^^^^^^
I could have said that I haven’t risked any money. On February 2, Jason at UP said that he would email me to say when I could call him and pay with a credit card. This is because I refused to fill out the Credit Card Authorization Form, which asked a lot of impertinent questions regarding bank accounts and banking contacts. I’m not a business asking to establish an ongoing business relationship. I merely want to buy RH for my resoler, who doesn’t have it. I just want to buy rubber from UP as I would climbing shoes.

Jason has yet to email me, and I have yet to pay for rubber. I emailed him one reminder. No response. 

Ah thanks for the clarification, damn that sucks they make it so hard for normies to buy rubber. I suppose I'll set up a business account first.

rock climbing wrote:

I don’t  think Adidas is that stupid to buy the brand and not the composition of the rubber. The only thing that made the 5.10 brand is is the rubber. 

My understanding is that Adidas did change the rubber after acquiring 5.10.  They had concerns about chemicals present during the formulation, but not present in the finished shoe.  UP continued using the original formulation.  I was told this by the UP rubber chemist.

rock climbing wrote:

Looks like rubber and shoes is back on the menu on the UP website. 

Chemicals present I'm the formulation and not present in the finishes shoe doesn't make too much sense. I know from 5.10 had issues getting certain nasty chemicals from Europe. Maybe Adidas had to change the formula because of regulations.  This is from and rubber chemist too. 

Europeans just made some plasticizers used in rubber illegal. Chemicals that make cheap rubber into sticky rubber. We might see some new rubbers on the market or a 30% increase in shoe prices. 

SBR rubber is what our shoe rubber is.
Butadiene and styrene. The former is carcinogenic. The later uses Benzene, which is a NASTY chemical for humans. Most all things with benzene ring are not great for us hairless apes.
I'm curious as to what plasticizers get used in SBR production that may be affected. Phthalates plasticizers were limited in 2017 is the last curbing I can google up. But I cant find phthalates uses in SBR rubbers.

Got a link to the newest chemical plasticizers that were made illegal?

Mr Rogers wrote:

 The later uses Benzene, which is a NASTY chemical for humans. Most all things with benzene ring are not great for us hairless apes.

Gonna let my chemistry nerd shine a little here. Benzene in pure form is indeed nasty and extremely carcinogenic. Benzene rings, or phenyl groups as they're known in the molecular context are the backbone of many substances that we consume to make our human lives better. (Pharmaceuticals/vitamins/supplements essential oils etc). 

This concludes my unsolicited chemistry lecture

Excellent. thanks you for the education.
Now, would you have a guess what @rock climbing is insinuating would make the cost of SBR rubbers go up due to certain chems/ingredients being made illegal in the EU?
I'm not finding anything that would make me think SBR production is being effected. But clearly my understanding of chemistry is pretty amateur.

EDIT: Thanks for link

rock climbing wrote:

They use plasticizers, oils and fillers in mixing  the rubber formulas. And they use a lot of it in order to make sbr work for climbing rubber. If they didn't it would be the same rubber as on regular shoes and nobody would complain that it wears out too fast. 

https://www.european-rubber-journal.com/article/2092286/rubber-chemical-listed-in-eu-toxic-waste-regulation

Thanks for the link!

https://www.european-rubber-journal.com/article/2092286/rubber-chemical-listed-in-eu-toxic-waste-regulation

Do you have anything more specific as far as climbing rubber and "forever chemicals", companies affected, etc.?  I'm genuinely curious.

UP called me yesterday, saying that they are ready to ship the rubber I had ordered. I paid them with a cc. I was told that the shipment would go out by the end of the day. (I haven’t received confirmation.) So I will have to decide whether to frame the rubber sheets or cut them up for resoles.

George Bracksieck wrote:

UP called me yesterday, saying that they are ready to ship the rubber I had ordered. I paid them with a cc. I was told that the shipment would go out by the end of the day. (I haven’t received confirmation.) So I will have to decide whether to frame the rubber sheets or cut them up for resoles.

You're not a certified resoler either? So I could buy rubber from them as a normal consumer?