Our runaway bolting problem

Tim FromMainewrote:

It already is...

https://www.instagram.com/p/ClciF60LsMk/

How is this an example of bolting problem?

Darren Mabewrote:

How is this an example of bolting problem?

    Whatever this guy's doing is definitely not what I'm talking about. Looks like it's probably a great sport line. I'm not going to repeat that I actually enjoy sport climbing. Hating sport climbing is not the point I'm making. 

    I knew a lot of people have the attitude that bolting anything and everything (including hazards) is ok. But I'm surprised by the support such sentiment gets. No just plugging gear next to the bolts is not the point. It's bad taste to bolt an obvious gear line. Always has been I'm not talking about one bolt next to a short crack being used as a face hold. 

    Skyler, having taste isn't being an egoist for standards that have been in place before modern gear. No having the "stones" to be like Brent Perkins does not bring back the element of commitment you would like to do away with. You have quoted me out of context the same as your straw man of devaluing this point to the demolition of Boat Rock boulders. Boat Rock wasn't a travesty Stalin was. Great argument right? If you think bolting a line with obvious good gear from bottom to top is ok, you're entitled. Lots of people who were never told no as a child have acquired drills. 

Darren Mabewrote:

How is this an example of bolting problem?

Rap bolting on what might be the most sacred formation in an area with strong traditional ethics. Just because a face is there does not mean it needs a line of bolts up it. Just hurts my soul to see Cyn Pyn treated like that. 

Tim FromMainewrote:

Rap bolting on what might be the most sacred formation in an area with strong traditional ethics. Just because a face is there does not mean it needs a line of bolts up it. Just hurts my soul to see Cyn Pyn treated like that. 

If that's so than I hope the locals act accordingly. Without context it looks like a reasonable place for a sport line. But yeah nothing really feels sacred anymore. 

Danny,

What about the standards before those standards? Do you actually value the style or just your style? Do we divide ethics by set region?

You are wrong to think that your ego isn’t involved here. Look harder.

Unfortunately since we are just expressing our opinions we will have to agree to disagree. 

Tim FromMainewrote:

Rap bolting on what might be the most sacred formation in an area with strong traditional ethics. Just because a face is there does not mean it needs a line of bolts up it. Just hurts my soul to see Cyn Pyn treated like that. 

There has been rap bolting for over 40 yrs in the Platte, Tim. 

If you bolt it, they will come.     

Ben Fwrote:

If you bolt it, they will come.  

Way easier than what Kevin Costner did. If he'd known he would've bought a gri gri and a Hilti. His field would've been left as corn for the children ⛏️

We should come out of semi-retirement.  Don't worry, the HPSC won't chop on private property where the owner has consented to tasteless bolting.  Unlike many here, we respect others' property.

I should ask for a refund on my Woodcock donation from a couple of years ago.     The SCC ain't what it used to be.  Sad.

I don't condone any clandestine chopping activity for the SCC property. I would like to see the SCC live up to what I assumed it's core values are and deal with it themselves. It doesn't look good for them if they can't maintain a basic standard of ethical development. I just haven't seen anything quite that audacious as what I've seen lately. I think we should do better. 

Danny Birchmanwrote:

I don't condone any clandestine chopping activity for the SCC property. I would like to see the SCC live up to what I assumed it's core values are and deal with it themselves. It doesn't look good for them if they can't maintain a basic standard of ethical development. I just haven't seen anything quite that audacious as what I've seen lately. I think we should do better. 

There's your problem, don't assume shit. It's not like it used to be. #Newschoolorgetcanceled

Cut-punch-patch... It is just that easy. I can get out to Woodcock tomorrow to get the party started on all those retros. Who is down? We can put our harnesses on in the parking lot and let everyone know we are on our way to correct the evil of the world...Are we going to chop Watford's sport route out at Woodcock or is that one okay? Seems like it can be led on gear. Did he do that while it was on private property? I'm sure he had permission...

Maybe instead of Woodcock we hit some of the retros at Fosters first. Maybe Watford will leave his keyboard to come clean up his mess on Standing Room with us. Anyone else marvel at all of the gear placements on that route?

Or perhaps we can hit Deep Creek where an established V0 was bolted. I guess they thought it wasn't safe enough as a boulder problem. I can't think of the name...Danny you might know the route. 

Lin Skeiwrote:

Cut-punch-patch... It is just that easy. I can get out to Woodcock tomorrow to get the party started on all those retros. Who is down? We can put our harnesses on in the parking lot and let everyone know we are on our way to correct the evil of the world...Are we going to chop Watford's sport route out at Woodcock or is that one okay? Seems like it can be led on gear. Did he do that while it was on private property? I'm sure he had permission...

Maybe instead of Woodcock we hit some of the retros at Fosters first. Maybe Watford will leave his keyboard to come clean up his mess on Standing Room with us. Anyone else marvel at all of the gear placements on that route?

Or perhaps we can hit Deep Creek where an established V0 was bolted. I guess they thought it wasn't safe enough as a boulder problem. I can't think of the name...Danny you might know the route. 

 

    You are really grasping for straws aren't you? If we judge everything in contrast with strawmen. We're left with a very strange world aren't we? You can bludgeon any standard with whataboutism. It doesn't mean it's a good argument. Just so I'm clear, do I only get justification when I chop one bolt I put on a 25 foot mossy slab at deep creek that no one ever does? Does Watford get his credentials when he strips standing room only because some rumor got around it was a retrobolt? Get your shit together before you start throwing it around guy. But it's ok I used to think standing room was a retrobolt too. 

    Let me make one thing staunchly clear. I'm am not nor am I calling for chopping of bolts at woodcock without SCC permission. If someone does that's on them. But the SCC should deal with it. In the likely scenario the SCC stands by this lack of standard in development. Then I just won't support the SCC anymore or go to it's property. It's that simple 

BigCountrywrote: There's your problem, don't assume shit. It's not like it used to be. #Newschoolorgetcanceled

LOL

Tennessee sounds like shit show 

You guys haven't solved this yet!?

A line that goes on gear can be climbed for generations without having to have bolts replaced and as we all know they often require patching and a rebolting in a new position. There’s a strong argument for the LNT ethic of a trad line. 

1. I had permission to climb at Woodcock for years. I parked in the owners yard. 

2. I havent bolted anything at Woodcock that could be naturally protected, so you are mistaken.

3. I did however do tons of trad routes there, many of which have now sprouted bolts. 

4. As far as Standing Room Only, I was actually not that psyched to bolt it, but it became popular. There is still some disagreement as to whether it had been done on gear or not. I certainly didnt know that it had been rumored to be. I was climbing primarily with Eddie Whittemore there at the time and he was not aware of anyone having done it on gear. I'll be happy to remove the bolts if that's what people prefer.

Chris Watford has always been a stand up guy to me.

Thanks for your contributions to the climbing community Chris!

It was just a cheap shot bringing up standing room just like it was the boulder slab I put one lead and one anchor bolt on. I mean I can understand a little whataboutism with some arguments. But that was really just a slight for a dumb point of contention. Neither is the same as bolting a well protected crack line. People nowadays don't need much excuse to abandon any standard for convenience. But they'll cast far to justify their BS.