Soloist requires rescue (2/12/23) - El Cajon Mountain (main wall, left side)

“Also if you know anyone who’s thinking about soloing and wants some perspective feel free to reach out. I’m always willing to talk it out.”

Are we still talking about soloing, or suicidal ideation?

Tie Rackwrote:

The increase in these incidents concerns me as well. It’s putting more people unnecessarily at risk, physically and emotionally. It could affect access with the resources being used more often. However, the reality is this. People are climbing now more than ever. I reckon many more will come as well. Could be a phase simply from the increase in popularity (Olympics, Honnold, the HBO show).

However, one person ranting isn’t going to solve this issue. I just started working at the Mesa Rim in Mission Valley and I want to create a space to have a conversation that would address the issue so that people can become more knowledgeable on the matter and hopefully the dialogue opens up with their friends who might be considering soloing and not have the experience to make it a sound judgement. 

If anyone has any ideas at all, about how the program/mini series could work, want to help create an outline, please reach out. This will be a months long process for me no doubt but I need all the help I can get since it’s been years since I’ve led any sort of discussion like the one I’m proposing. It also doesn’t have to be a discussion it could be like a vendor booth gathering type deal. If you genuinely care about this issue then I would really appreciate any and all ideas!

Last thing before I get off my soap box..I feel like if anything is to be done, then talking about it in real life is better than diatribes online or writing “GYM BROS” from the safety of our devices.

Also if you know anyone who’s thinking about soloing and wants some perspective feel free to reach out. I’m always willing to talk it out

Please have anyone solo-curious call/txt this hotline: 951-527-7959

I take issue with the common "something needs to be done" reaction we're inclined to have about so many upsetting topics these days.  Super shitty situation you got brought into, and he sounds like he almost paid the price for a lot of poor decisions that stacked up.  The thing is though, people are always gonna make mistakes, and we're just going to see more of it in climbing alongside it's mainstream growth.  I don't think free solo has anything to do with these incidents increasing -  just young dudes being young dudes.  I get that you're mad that you feel like he assumed that someone would rescue him if things went south, but we can also assume he was very confident that wouldn't happen when he left the ground.

The shitty truth is, you didn't have to rescue him.  You have a heart, and chose to.  Maybe next time don't offer help you don't really want to give?  I like your partners attitude towards this situation a lot, but can't really figure out what it is that's so maddening for you, or what you expect to change here.  People have been getting upset about soloing for many decades, and shouting "soloing is dangerous and you shouldn't do it!" hasn't worked.

What's the end goal here?

almostradwrote:

I take issue with the common "something needs to be done" reaction we're inclined to have about so many upsetting topics these days.  Super shitty situation you got brought into, and he sounds like he almost paid the price for a lot of poor decisions that stacked up.  The thing is though, people are always gonna make mistakes, and we're just going to see more of it in climbing alongside it's mainstream growth.  I don't think free solo has anything to do with these incidents increasing -  just young dudes being young dudes.  I get that you're mad that you feel like he assumed that someone would rescue him if things went south, but we can also assume he was very confident that wouldn't happen when he left the ground.

The shitty truth is, you didn't have to rescue him.  You have a heart, and chose to.  Maybe next time don't offer help you don't really want to give?  I like your partners attitude towards this situation a lot, but can't really figure out what it is that's so maddening for you, or what you expect to change here.  People have been getting upset about soloing for many decades, and shouting "soloing is dangerous and you shouldn't do it!" hasn't worked.

What's the end goal here?

Morally and legally a person can’t just look the other way. B was mad because it interrupted his day, and rightfully so!

Tradibanwrote:

Morally and legally a person can’t just look the other way. ...

In California, a civilian has no legal obligation or duty to rescue or assist in an emergency.

ClimbBajawrote:

In California, a civilian has no legal obligation or duty to rescue or assist in an emergency.

Whew! That’s a relief!

next time just call 911 for him

“In California, a civilian has no legal obligation or duty to rescue or assist in an emergency.”

True enough. But if you start to help, you gotta stick with it. And it could get complicated if something goes sideways during the process…

apogeewrote:

“In California, a civilian has no legal obligation or duty to rescue or assist in an emergency.”

True enough. But if you start to help, you gotta stick with it. And it could get complicated if something goes sideways during the process…

I guess legally the safe bet is to just run the other direction.

In a WFR recertification class, the topic of  helping/not helping came up. According to the instructor at NOLS, if you are a Wilderness First Responder, you must help people you have previously met. If you happen upon a situation/accident completely new, noping out of there is a-ok.

A *NOLS* instructor told you that?

That’s a perfect reason why NOLS courses should be avoided.

Maybe, bare minimum, know what the hell you’re doing before you pull a Kyle Walker?

apogeewrote:

A *NOLS* instructor told you that?

That’s a perfect reason why NOLS courses should be avoided.

For what it’s worth, my next recertification was taken elsewhere, although not for that reason. The hypothetical question came up and the instructor gave an answer. The question in the course was about legal requirements, not morals or ethics. Who knows if it’s correct.

The right thing to do would be to help but I would consider calling 911 and walking away as helping if a soloist was stranded at a stance. Involving oneself further is risky as is involving SAR. One solves the problem more quickly and with fewer resources and oversight. Hopefully without negative consequences. 

Alex Fletcherwrote:

For what it’s worth, my next recertification was taken elsewhere, although not for that reason. The hypothetical question came up and the instructor gave an answer. The question in the course was about legal requirements, not morals or ethics. Who knows if it’s correct.

I do. It’s not correct.

The right thing to do would be to help but I would consider calling 911 and walking away as helping if a soloist was stranded at a stance. Involving oneself further is risky as is involving SAR. One solves the problem more quickly and with fewer resources and oversight. Hopefully without negative consequences. 

If they are on stable ground it might be ok to let SAR take care of it but they could also be having a mental health crisis and could jump at any moment.

It’s everyone’s duty under God to intervene to the best of their abilities.

abandon moderation wrote:

That's also what a non-NOLS instructor told me. IIRC it's also stated clearly in the curriculum.

The NOLS instructor said you must help people you “perviously met” but not those “new” to you. Maybe just a dumb way of saying you can’t abandon a rescue?

But what if the rescue becomes unsafe to you?

Mostly it's in the context that you're able to walk away if you think the rescue may be dangerous to yourself, but fundamentally there is no legal obligation to help someone. But once you've started helping, abandonment is a legal problem, so before you start helping you need to be sure you can see it through to the finish.

No one can be sure they will be able to “finish” a rescue.

Regardless if what the law says the reality is that you most likely won’t be punished for trying to help someone in any context so don’t think twice, put down your GroPro and help somebody.

Tradibanwrote:

Regardless if what the law says the reality is that you most likely won’t be punished for trying to help someone in any context so don’t think twice, put down your GroPro and help somebody.

just be sure you have a plan and know what you're doing. the absolute worst thing you can do is become a subject yourself and now 2 people need to be rescued.

at the bare minimum, start emergency services

Leonids, 5.9:

This is a great onsight free solo for the Gumby free soloist. I mean, what would Alex Handholds do? Probably preview the route, making sure his skill set is adequate to the challenge. But, let’s face it, you’re no Hondo!

Pro tip: make sure you start early so nobody hears your whimpering as you squeak your way up, or, conversely, you can just wait for the cavalry if you decide your glucose levels are dipping.

Send it or end it, brodales!

Tradibanwrote:

It’s everyone’s duty under God to intervene to the best of their abilities.

Does this apply to atheists?

Marc Hwrote:

Does this apply to atheists?

God watches over everyone but due to liability reasons cannot assist in a rescue.