Fitness/Training

It is likely I have climbed more different routes on El cap than Mark and Chris put together. I would never dream of aid climbing without 2 daisies because it is too easy to drop stuff. I would never recommend to you nor anyone else to climb without daisies, regardless of the rating of the pitch.

Mark and Chris are both better climbers than me so maybe they can get away with it. But most other people will end up dropping stuff.

But ultimately each of us must choose for himself. So do whatever works best for you.

Well, there is another reason...

....I am too lazy to actually want to bother climbing my aiders, and would rather just pull myself up on my adjustable daisies with a 2 to 1 mechanical lifting advantage, less friction through the buckle. 

When I first got my Alfifi, I tried climbing with it and regular daisies as suggested by David Allfrey, but after only fifty feet of climbing - and continually reaching for non-existent adjustable daisies, I stuck with what I know and put my two adjustable daisies back in my system.

After I finish my bounce test, it's easier for me to pull myself up on my adjustable daisy, which I can reach from down low, rather than to make the extra reach to add the Alfifi. I don't use my Alfifi to lift me; I only use it to fine tune my top stepping. 

If you spend time at the base of a wall, you will find dropped aid ladders with no daisies attached. Usually there's a piece of hear attached. So I thank my sponsors and suppliers. Why buy gear when it falls from the sky?

Peter Zabrokwrote:

Get a partner and practise jugging.  

Climb up into a tree with a good outwardly extending branch. Put a sling and a carabiner around the branch, and clip the rope through the crab.

Have your partner put the rope through their GriGri on their harness, up through the crab and the branch, and then the end comes down to you. Get on this free-hanging rope and practise jugging. Your partner feeds the rope for you as you ascend.

You will want to convert your rig to the froggy system to maximize your efficiency while hanging in space, and you'll need to figure out how to squeeze the free-hanging rope between your toes to autofeed the rope through your lower ascender. The trick is to make sure all the lengths are perfect, and to mount the lower ascender as low as possible on your climbing harness.

When you can jug 60m of rope in five minutes or less, we'll talk. And if you can jug 200m of free-hanging rope in under 22 min 55 seconds, I will owe you a beer.  ;) 

That'll get ya fit, mate.  

Progress Report:

I followed your advise today.  I climbed a 60m free hanging rope from a tree today and it worked great!  I first did it the Texas style and then I repeated it using the frog style.  The frog style was better however I learned that my system has some opportunities for improvement.  I only had two hand ascenders, so I had to use two slings for a chest harness and a hand ascender on my chest.  It took me roughly 30 minutes, so I have a long way to go to reach my 5 min target, but I think using a chest ascender and a tighter chest harness will help my efficiency and time.

What do you recommend for a chest harness?  My chest harness made of slings were way too loose.

I'll work on hauling as well, but first I need to order some more gear.

I also have 50 pages left before I'm finished with the book Higher Education.

I appreciate everyone's support!  I feel like I have a plan that will help me be more prepared for the day when I can get on an actual wall!

Once again, I really appreciate the posts from Kevin and Pete, and for Josh in starting this thread.  It's all starting to make a little more sense now about the different systems and their advantages and disadvantages.  This has been really insightful for me.  Right now I would just be excited to be efficient on C2.  I'm also drawn to the idea of no daises to avoid the risk of a static fall.  After watching videos of people using the Allfifi I am totally sold on getting one.  I guess I'll get on the wait list.  The suck factor will suck, as Kevin has mentioned, but I think I'll be able to handle it.  It was almost 20 years ago, but I hiked the Pacific Crest Trail from Mexico to Canada, so I have some experience at being really stubborn and consistent towards a goal.  I'm really fortunate to live just an hour from Zion so I can get on the walls there.  

There is no reason to ever take a daisy chain fall, which is 100% pilot error. 

In HOOKING UP, Fabio and I teach you how to aid climb with proper technique so you'll never take a daisy chain fall.  

Yes, I want to get a copy of Hooking up.  I see it's being sold on Amazon now.  I remember some other instructions for how to get a copy of it previously.  

I had someone describe how to avoid the daisy chain fall once and it sort of made sense.  I'd like to understand it better as daisy chain falls sound terrible.  

Thanks again for all the insight.  It's funny how we discussed this a lot in the fitness post, but I like it and I appreciate everyone for contributing.  

I just asked the publishers for a quote at sending me a bunch of copies, so email me and I'll let you know when it's available. You can also get it at the Yosemite Mountain Shop.  

As per above, your frog system will increase greatly in efficiency by having a tight-fitting harness and most importantly, your chest ascender mounted LOW, which is nearly impossible to do with a climbing harness.  You can just about anything to make a chest harness to hold up your lower ascender. In 1981, we were the first cavers in North America to use the Petzl frog system for ascending in a cave to -827m in Mexico. I used either a bungee cord around my neck, or a bicycle inner tube to rig a chest harness!  Both work great.  But the best $20 you can ever spend is to order yourself a Petzl C26 Torse chest harness.  You can't get it from from most climbing shops, only a caving supplier.  

I have never learned how to ascend a rope with two handled ascenders!  I started with Frog over forty years ago, and that's what I use for jugging and cleaning on the wall, with the usual backups and so on.  Most of the time the Yosemite system is better, but the frog works well for me. 

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

There's many different ways to ascend a rope, and to be honest, the Yosemite method is NOT even close to the best way to ascend a free hanging rope. Cavers are the ones that know how to ascend free hanging ropes the best and they've developed amazing systems for doing just that. But that's the kicker, those systems are developed for "JUST THAT"  Ascending just a free hanging rope is not really what happens in bigwall climbing. The reason why we all use an inferior method for ascending a rope to clean a pitch is because you need to stop constantly to pass pieces and sometimes for lowering out. These are all things that the Yosemite system of ascending a rope with two hand ascenders is by far the best system. Any jugging system involving a chest harness and chest ascender is going to be great for the 5% of the wall that you ascend a free hanging rope. But it's going to suck for the other 95% of the wall. Practice everything, buy every piece of equipment, but prioritize what you're working on as a new bigwaller to what you'll be doing 95% of the time rather than (no matter how fun it is) 5% of the wall. 

In your opinion what are the top five skills that I would use 95% of the time that I can practice?

Once the bags are docked, getting the weight onto the docking cords and off the haul kit can be clustery at times. That is certainly something I’d practice a few times. 

Yes, 100%, there's various methods of doing this,each with their pros and cons, (I prefer slapping a grigri on the line to lower the bag onto the docking cord, it's slower but easier for smaller and less beefy persons)

^^ For sure, 100x easier to release the cam on your hauling device to lower the pigs onto their docking tether using a GriGri rather than a jug.  I can do this by myself 1:1 - even with Dr. Piton Junk Show-sized loads - by putting my feet on the wall above my head and pushing downwards.  Release the cam on the hauling device as you do this, then you can easily lower the load onto its tethers using the GriGri. 

The real attraction to leading daisy-less, after speed, is that it just feels NAUGHTY   I mean, I only get to do this a few weeks a year; do I want to wear a raincoat in a shower??? 

Like, yeah, eh?  You, like, have to cut a hole in the ice to take a shower, eh?